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Teri Adams, Head of Independence Hall Tea Party and School Voucher Activist:
Our ultimate goal is to shut down public schools and have private schools only, eventually returning responsibility for payment to parents and private charities. It’s going to happen piecemeal and not overnight. It took us years to get into this mess and it’s going to take years to get out of it.
In other words, Adams would like education to be, along with medical care, available only to those who can pony up the cash for it.
The article I’ve linked to includes a few quotes from people speculating about what drives the American right’s hostility towards public education. The ban on teacher-led prayer is invoked, along with the mercenary desire to funnel the money now paid into public schools into private hands.
I suspect it’s much more simple than that. Without universal education, the far right wouldn’t have to contend with so many pesky arguments about the facts of history, math, science, etc.
Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes
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(no subject)
Date: 16/7/11 17:53 (UTC)I think it ultimately derives from the Religious Right, and more so than that from the "sola scriptura" doctrine. The idea that the Bible is the sole source of religious truth has developed into a deeply held suspicion towards any sort of book or learning that doesn't directly relate to the Bible. Add to this the basic secularism of the public school system and I think it's fairly easy to see why they're so hostile.
The other factor is the rather shaky basis for faith that many fundamentalists have. Even though they claim sola scriptura, many of them have read very little of the Bible and get their doctrines of faith more from preachers than from the Bible itself. When it comes to opposing viewpoints, they don't want to learn about them and evaluate them, or even learn about them in order to discredit them. They would rather simply not learn about them at all. This attitude extends to their children -- they do not want to expose their children to an environment where they will question their faith. To them, questioning your faith is the road to hell, not a road to a stronger faith. One wonders what they would make of Thomas Aquinas.
Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
Date: 16/7/11 18:00 (UTC)Utter emotionalism. Also, your speculations are self-serving fantasies. It is the public system which is failing and producing spectacles of ignorance and miseducation, not private education.
Considering what you've written, more fundamentally, even including the extent that people teach what they know out of their own time and resources, as charity or other benevolence, education will always be available "only to those who can pony up the cash for it." Education is a service provided out of human leisure; it does not fall out of the sky on people like rain. It is only a question of how the "cash" is obtained: through force and coercion or through persuasion and free trade.
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Date: 16/7/11 18:04 (UTC)Re: Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
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Date: 16/7/11 18:08 (UTC)Re: Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
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Date: 16/7/11 18:08 (UTC)Re: Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
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Date: 16/7/11 18:08 (UTC)John Quincy Adams was a founding father
Hitler was a leftist
The Weimar Republic ended in 1939
The Jamestown settlement was a bunch of commie hippies
Neville Chamberlain is today reviled because he talked to Hitler
So, yeah, I can see why the far right would be so opposed to public education. The fewer people there are around who can actually call them on this nonsense the better, as far as they're concerned.
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Date: 16/7/11 18:12 (UTC)This will , hopefully, come to the attention of the shareholders who will insist on returning to the 3 Rs nd getting a workforce capable of reading written instructions, menus,and the like.
If not, well, Europe will emerge as a world leader if the Indians and Chinese don't get there first.
Re: Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
Date: 16/7/11 18:27 (UTC)Yes, and (let's leave the stupid right and the stupid left out of it for a minute) it's astounding how, regardless that is a fact, it is simply ignored in these arguments. It's as if the fact of education is entirely beside the point of the funding sources for it. "It doesn't matter how much it sucks, so long as it's paid for by someone or another, who cares?"
The systems broken, and it's not going to matter if you throw more fresh cash at it or keep throwing the same old cash at it, because, like a crumbling plaster wall, it can't be papered over with any amount of green paper, no matter who's supplying the paper.
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Date: 16/7/11 19:19 (UTC)Get off the fucking computer. Without public education AND public investment in scientific research over many many years you wouldn't have one no matter how many little green pieces of paper you might have access to.
I've gotten close, at times, to buying the Libertarian line, and I still think that Government should be very careful about how money is spent, but as time goes on I see proof upon proof that the Libertarianism (with a big L in particular) is utter madness, and dangerous at that.
I support raising taxes right now on the top 5%, particularly the top 1% or 2%. As it stands, they've been robbing the world blind, and have way too many suckers convinced of a taxes-as-theft ideology which simply heaps more and more power into an unrepresentative tiny minority of elites.
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Date: 16/7/11 20:10 (UTC)Re: Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
Date: 16/7/11 20:55 (UTC)We allow others to represent us because ordinary people do not have the time, energy, or education to properly manage the surrounding aspects that make up their day-to-day lives. This is a much better arrangement than leaving all these duties to private entities, because many systems require monopolies which leads to wholesale greed within private organizations, whereas public institutions are required to be transparent and carry a much harsher penalty for corruption. This is not true in all cases, but I've certainly not heard of the latest plumbing or roadwork scandal.
It's also possible to have private entities do this stuff, as long as it is heavily regulated to the point where it is impossible to exploit the clients which have no choice but to rely on them for that service. Where it is regulated to the point where it would be equivalent to a public service anyway. Very small incentives for corruption, very harsh penalties.
Society benefits much greater from laws that prevent exploitation and corruption than it does without. Greed and inflicting misery is human nature, like it or not, and there is an ironic study that states that some of the best leaders are also the worst people- that they have an inflated sense of ego and are motivated to exploit others for profit. For everyone under them, this is a great deal and they are likely to benefit, but for everyone else that person becomes someone who wants to get into their pockets and bank accounts. This is not true in all cases, in fact I won't even say most or half, but these people exist and they're self-serving to the point of criminal negligence.
Not to say that the best society is the most heavily regulated one, in fact many regulations in the US are highly beneficial to corporations as they enable government-mandated or incentivized monopolies to create huge entry barriers to competition. However, without regulation the same thing happens, as you can clearly see from Edison's destructive policies that forced Tesla into a paragraph of history, instead of a book like Edison. In fact, most corporate practices in the early 20th century, from robber barons to new industries, would cut out your eye if it would make them a quick buck. We do not want to return to those times.
So, could private enterprises run a cheaper (in net costs) and better education? Maybe, but it wouldn't be accessible to everyone. In the long run, an uneducated populace is highly detrimental to the growth of a country. Especially for America, who prides itself on its thinkers and innovators. Having a society of haves and have-nots is exactly the conditions that lead to a 3rd world nation.
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Date: 16/7/11 22:12 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 16/7/11 18:02 (UTC)So they'll simply abolish them and it will all fade away. It's such a terribly Marxist idea.....
(no subject)
Date: 16/7/11 18:43 (UTC)Which is kind of ironic, because it was Victorian England that pioneered public education by putting kids in schools. Lord Shaftesbury and all that.
Mind you, you may have had a similar set up in the USA, I am not too well up on Stateside social history of the same period.
(no subject)
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From:Free Market Follies
Date: 16/7/11 18:47 (UTC)ARGENTINA: A GRAND EXPERIMENT IN WATER PRIVATIZATION THAT FAILED (http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/deadinthewater/argentina.html)
Re: Free Market Follies
Date: 16/7/11 19:14 (UTC)The fact that baby milk formula has to be mixed correctly, with clean, hot water, is a big challenge for a mother who has no access to clean water, and is semi literate at best.
Breast milk is free of charge, requires no preparation and also contains many antibodies that will help the child fight off infections. back in the 80s, I worked as a volunteer to support the GOBI initiative.
It is hard to believe that basic needs like sanitation and clean drinking water are still issues in the developing world, but there you are - we are still up against the corporations.
(no subject)
Date: 16/7/11 20:18 (UTC)The ban on teacher-led prayer is invoked, along with the mercenary desire to funnel the money now paid into public schools into private hands.
The former, yes, but the latter no. It's not about trying to "funnel the money" into private hands, but funneling the money away from the public black hole.
I suspect it’s much more simple than that. Without universal education, the far right wouldn’t have to contend with so many pesky arguments about the facts of history, math, science, etc.
Looking at the test scores and results of the ever-expanding public schooling, the right is losing that battle while still having the facts on their side. Facts being pesky like that and all.
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Date: 16/7/11 20:28 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 16/7/11 21:02 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 16/7/11 21:05 (UTC)They say what they want, but there's zero consideration for what will actually happen if their fanciful libertarian utopia came to fruition.
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Date: 16/7/11 21:25 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 16/7/11 21:34 (UTC)Like that idea?
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From:We've heard that kind of statement before:
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Date: 16/7/11 21:56 (UTC)Y U NO MAKE SENSE AMERICA?
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Date: 16/7/11 22:02 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 17/7/11 04:06 (UTC)In other words, Adams would like education to be, along with medical care, available only to those who can pony up the cash for it.
If the alternative is a system where getting a decent education requires sending children to private schools, what's the difference? At least this way, reducing the enormous expense of an ineffective public system would leave some money in parents' pockets so they could afford to pony up some cash for their children's education.
(no subject)
Date: 17/7/11 15:22 (UTC)Yes, there is a very, VERY big difference between a child being able to go to school because a public school system is available and a child not having that option.
Why are you and others so intent on increasing illiteracy in this country?
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Date: 17/7/11 20:29 (UTC)You know what life was like before the FDA? There were many ketchup competitors, and they all used moldy tomatoes to create their moldy ketchup. One of the first things the Pure Food And Drug Act, the Act that essentially created the FDA in June 30th, 1906 by Theodore Roosevelt, addressed was moldy ketchup.
A few years later the company began selling ketchup, and much of their marketing focused on the fact that Heinz ketchup did not contain any rotten tomatoes—in stark contrast to many of their competitors. A relatively recent publicity piece about Heinz claims that “Henry Heinz recognized before most of his peers that pure food is not only good for you, but is also good business,” but the truth is that Heinz’ promise of a safe product was not itself sufficient to capture the ketchup market. By the start of the Twentieth Century, Heinz was a major ketchup producer, but so were several companies who padded their bottom line by mixing rancid tomatoes into their product.
Seeing an opportunity, Heinz joined the chorus of scientists, consumer advocates and government officials who were clamouring for federal oversight of the processed food industry, even sending future Heinz CEO Howard Heinz to lobby President Theodore Roosevelt in favor of a the Pure Food and Drug Act, which prohibited some of the processed food industry’s most revolting practicies and gave enforcement authority to the agency which would later become the FDA. In 1906 the Act passed, and most of Heinz competitors were pushed out of business.
Because Heinz was one of only a handful of major ketchup producers who were already in the business of mass producing ketchup solely from fresh tomatoes, they quickly capitalized on the vacuum that formed as the rancid ketchup industry collapsed. Heinz became the market leader, and it remains so today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Food_and_Drug_Act
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/libertarians-are-dumb-or-why-we-eat-heinz-ketchup/blog-298247/?page=2
So basically when someone advocates a libertarian worldview, a good question to ask them is, "Why do you want me to eat moldy ketchup?"
(no subject)
Date: 17/7/11 20:40 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 18/7/11 23:08 (UTC)I'm making a new thread for this, because it's so funny. This is the exact same argument that socialists make. People naturally want to work and do the best that they can! People inherently want to help each other and bring up society to their level! Everyone is so altruistic and benevolent, how can socialism possibly fail?