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talkpoliticsTeri Adams, Head of Independence Hall Tea Party and School Voucher Activist:
Our ultimate goal is to shut down public schools and have private schools only, eventually returning responsibility for payment to parents and private charities. It’s going to happen piecemeal and not overnight. It took us years to get into this mess and it’s going to take years to get out of it.
In other words, Adams would like education to be, along with medical care, available only to those who can pony up the cash for it.
The article I’ve linked to includes a few quotes from people speculating about what drives the American right’s hostility towards public education. The ban on teacher-led prayer is invoked, along with the mercenary desire to funnel the money now paid into public schools into private hands.
I suspect it’s much more simple than that. Without universal education, the far right wouldn’t have to contend with so many pesky arguments about the facts of history, math, science, etc.
Crossposted from Thoughtcrimes
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Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
Date: 16/7/11 18:00 (UTC)Utter emotionalism. Also, your speculations are self-serving fantasies. It is the public system which is failing and producing spectacles of ignorance and miseducation, not private education.
Considering what you've written, more fundamentally, even including the extent that people teach what they know out of their own time and resources, as charity or other benevolence, education will always be available "only to those who can pony up the cash for it." Education is a service provided out of human leisure; it does not fall out of the sky on people like rain. It is only a question of how the "cash" is obtained: through force and coercion or through persuasion and free trade.
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Date: 16/7/11 18:08 (UTC)Re: Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
Date: 16/7/11 19:42 (UTC)There have been entire books written on this topic. I will give you a couple, just because your comment implies that there are no ideas on the topic at all.
I put it to you though, that your very question hints at the flawed premises underlying it. "Society" is organic. It is an emergent phenomenon. It is not "planned" and directed from above. There are rulers who coerce people and force human action but it is hubris and delusion to believe that they "plan" what millions of human being make of their lives and what results from the interaction of those millions of plans and actions. Most of society operates now outside of the realm of coercion; in the realm of free choice and anarchy, which is merely the absence of rulers, not of rules or order. My point is that the sphere of freedom and voluntary cooperation, Oppenheimer's Economic Sphere, cannot grow except at the expense of the coercive and involuntary sphere, his Political Sphere. Civilization flourishes when the Political Sphere shrinks and the Economic Sphere grows. Unlike wealth, power IS a zero-sum game.
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Date: 16/7/11 22:11 (UTC)Re: Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
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Date: 16/7/11 19:02 (UTC)Unfortunately, our government is closely tied to big business, and ideologically split by a wide margin, so any government-based solution is going to be diluted by these things. A combination of private and public solutions, IMO, is the best path.
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Date: 16/7/11 19:03 (UTC)These things are better described for what they are, regardless of what side of the political spectrum one finds ones self on:
Services.
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Date: 16/7/11 19:46 (UTC)Re: Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
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Date: 16/7/11 23:59 (UTC)Now if what you meant to say was actually SCHOOLING, then no, it is not a basic human right.
Re: Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
Date: 16/7/11 18:08 (UTC)John Quincy Adams was a founding father
Hitler was a leftist
The Weimar Republic ended in 1939
The Jamestown settlement was a bunch of commie hippies
Neville Chamberlain is today reviled because he talked to Hitler
So, yeah, I can see why the far right would be so opposed to public education. The fewer people there are around who can actually call them on this nonsense the better, as far as they're concerned.
Re: Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
Date: 16/7/11 18:19 (UTC)2) Obviously false
3) Depends on how one defines the Enabling Act and whether or not one counts Bruning as a democratic ruler, let alone Hindenberg or not.
4) They were....by the standard of the modern Tea Party which rejects everyone to the left of Attila the Hun as a pacifist tree-hugger. Including Hitler.
5) Er.....that is actually the case. Everyone pisses on ol' Neville and most of them forget the only victor of a 1938 war would be the Soviet Union.
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Date: 16/7/11 18:12 (UTC)This will , hopefully, come to the attention of the shareholders who will insist on returning to the 3 Rs nd getting a workforce capable of reading written instructions, menus,and the like.
If not, well, Europe will emerge as a world leader if the Indians and Chinese don't get there first.
Re: Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
Date: 16/7/11 18:27 (UTC)Yes, and (let's leave the stupid right and the stupid left out of it for a minute) it's astounding how, regardless that is a fact, it is simply ignored in these arguments. It's as if the fact of education is entirely beside the point of the funding sources for it. "It doesn't matter how much it sucks, so long as it's paid for by someone or another, who cares?"
The systems broken, and it's not going to matter if you throw more fresh cash at it or keep throwing the same old cash at it, because, like a crumbling plaster wall, it can't be papered over with any amount of green paper, no matter who's supplying the paper.
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From:*crickets*
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From:And by what mechanism, and with what resources, would those rules be made and enforced?
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From:Grow a pair and answer a question directly for once.
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Date: 16/7/11 19:19 (UTC)Get off the fucking computer. Without public education AND public investment in scientific research over many many years you wouldn't have one no matter how many little green pieces of paper you might have access to.
I've gotten close, at times, to buying the Libertarian line, and I still think that Government should be very careful about how money is spent, but as time goes on I see proof upon proof that the Libertarianism (with a big L in particular) is utter madness, and dangerous at that.
I support raising taxes right now on the top 5%, particularly the top 1% or 2%. As it stands, they've been robbing the world blind, and have way too many suckers convinced of a taxes-as-theft ideology which simply heaps more and more power into an unrepresentative tiny minority of elites.
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Date: 16/7/11 20:10 (UTC)Re: Public education is political indoctrination paid for by theft
Date: 16/7/11 20:55 (UTC)We allow others to represent us because ordinary people do not have the time, energy, or education to properly manage the surrounding aspects that make up their day-to-day lives. This is a much better arrangement than leaving all these duties to private entities, because many systems require monopolies which leads to wholesale greed within private organizations, whereas public institutions are required to be transparent and carry a much harsher penalty for corruption. This is not true in all cases, but I've certainly not heard of the latest plumbing or roadwork scandal.
It's also possible to have private entities do this stuff, as long as it is heavily regulated to the point where it is impossible to exploit the clients which have no choice but to rely on them for that service. Where it is regulated to the point where it would be equivalent to a public service anyway. Very small incentives for corruption, very harsh penalties.
Society benefits much greater from laws that prevent exploitation and corruption than it does without. Greed and inflicting misery is human nature, like it or not, and there is an ironic study that states that some of the best leaders are also the worst people- that they have an inflated sense of ego and are motivated to exploit others for profit. For everyone under them, this is a great deal and they are likely to benefit, but for everyone else that person becomes someone who wants to get into their pockets and bank accounts. This is not true in all cases, in fact I won't even say most or half, but these people exist and they're self-serving to the point of criminal negligence.
Not to say that the best society is the most heavily regulated one, in fact many regulations in the US are highly beneficial to corporations as they enable government-mandated or incentivized monopolies to create huge entry barriers to competition. However, without regulation the same thing happens, as you can clearly see from Edison's destructive policies that forced Tesla into a paragraph of history, instead of a book like Edison. In fact, most corporate practices in the early 20th century, from robber barons to new industries, would cut out your eye if it would make them a quick buck. We do not want to return to those times.
So, could private enterprises run a cheaper (in net costs) and better education? Maybe, but it wouldn't be accessible to everyone. In the long run, an uneducated populace is highly detrimental to the growth of a country. Especially for America, who prides itself on its thinkers and innovators. Having a society of haves and have-nots is exactly the conditions that lead to a 3rd world nation.
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