Score one for secularism?
23/1/19 21:21![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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I mean now the USA will finally be overtly intervening with what will either spark a civil war (because to be crudely frank Maduro, like Chavez, has an army and the other guy doesn't and dictators always like shooting first knowing that as long as they say 'death to the Great Satan/American imperialism' a good portion of the US and global media will defend the shot up corpses as the price of progress and an inevitable good thing) or at least a massacre in an oil-rich state that isn't a mostly Muslim one.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-46980913
To be equally fair, I've never understood the immense gulf in the global left's view of Hugo Chavez versus Nicolas Maduro. Ideologically Maduro is far the better choice for the Left, he's a genuine proletarian, and much more ideologically consistent. All Chavez proves is that anyone who defends him and hates Pinochet only hates a military coup not given the appropriate magic words, not a generals' putsch on principle.
In particular articles like this are the purest quality of horseshit, written to obfuscate that Chavez played as fast and loose with banning opposition as Maduro's done, and that both of them created a petrostate one-trick pony of an economy that has the same problem all the others do.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/05/maduro-chavez-170513145531916.html
To be fair some media coverage grudgingly recognizes a general who tried the same stunt Pinochet did wasn't a guy who created an 'economic miracle' but instead your average garden variety Santa Anna/Juan Peron wannabe who had a good PR firm that enabled the global Left to suddenly rally behind a military despot of the kind they otherwise usually savor their biggest volleys for whenever they're not focused monomaniacally on the USA.
http://theconversation.com/how-todays-crisis-in-venezuela-was-created-by-hugo-chavezs-revolutionary-plan-6147
Essentially, I think that Maduro's gotten a bum rap, and that on the basis of the sterling successes of prior US intervention that he may have actually achieved a miracle of his own because at the rate the USA's Reverse Midas Touch factor applies, odds are just as well he ends up making the entire northern part of South America his bitch, routing a pro-US coup by simple 1989 China methods, and becoming a more successful Fidel Castro with an oilfield. He's no better and no worse than Chavez, it's just that when Chavez died the myth that Venezuela was anything but a corrupt despotic petrodictatorship fell with him and his successor was never able to recreate it save in the eyes of the people making martyrs out of people like the House of Kim.
This is also the first time in a while that the USA has openly endorsed interference in Venezuelan politics, which is especially ironic given all the hullabaloo about Russian intervention. I think the real crime Putin did in the eyes of Americans was reminding us that we're not that different in the right hands from what we've done to other countries, and are no more immune to it than they are. When the USA does this to other countries, it's the god-given right of an empire to fuck with the sovereignty and electoral processes of other states, while God help the person who dares to treat the USA thus!
Naturally too I expect literally no major US media outlets will ever notice this bit of dissonance at any point in the whole mess here, and will take for granted that when the Colossus of the North clenches its Infinity Gauntlet that it is thus perfectly fulfilling its balanced geopolitical role, and not a case of imperialist hypocrisy to Biblical proportions.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-46980913
To be equally fair, I've never understood the immense gulf in the global left's view of Hugo Chavez versus Nicolas Maduro. Ideologically Maduro is far the better choice for the Left, he's a genuine proletarian, and much more ideologically consistent. All Chavez proves is that anyone who defends him and hates Pinochet only hates a military coup not given the appropriate magic words, not a generals' putsch on principle.
In particular articles like this are the purest quality of horseshit, written to obfuscate that Chavez played as fast and loose with banning opposition as Maduro's done, and that both of them created a petrostate one-trick pony of an economy that has the same problem all the others do.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/05/maduro-chavez-170513145531916.html
To be fair some media coverage grudgingly recognizes a general who tried the same stunt Pinochet did wasn't a guy who created an 'economic miracle' but instead your average garden variety Santa Anna/Juan Peron wannabe who had a good PR firm that enabled the global Left to suddenly rally behind a military despot of the kind they otherwise usually savor their biggest volleys for whenever they're not focused monomaniacally on the USA.
http://theconversation.com/how-todays-crisis-in-venezuela-was-created-by-hugo-chavezs-revolutionary-plan-6147
Essentially, I think that Maduro's gotten a bum rap, and that on the basis of the sterling successes of prior US intervention that he may have actually achieved a miracle of his own because at the rate the USA's Reverse Midas Touch factor applies, odds are just as well he ends up making the entire northern part of South America his bitch, routing a pro-US coup by simple 1989 China methods, and becoming a more successful Fidel Castro with an oilfield. He's no better and no worse than Chavez, it's just that when Chavez died the myth that Venezuela was anything but a corrupt despotic petrodictatorship fell with him and his successor was never able to recreate it save in the eyes of the people making martyrs out of people like the House of Kim.
This is also the first time in a while that the USA has openly endorsed interference in Venezuelan politics, which is especially ironic given all the hullabaloo about Russian intervention. I think the real crime Putin did in the eyes of Americans was reminding us that we're not that different in the right hands from what we've done to other countries, and are no more immune to it than they are. When the USA does this to other countries, it's the god-given right of an empire to fuck with the sovereignty and electoral processes of other states, while God help the person who dares to treat the USA thus!
Naturally too I expect literally no major US media outlets will ever notice this bit of dissonance at any point in the whole mess here, and will take for granted that when the Colossus of the North clenches its Infinity Gauntlet that it is thus perfectly fulfilling its balanced geopolitical role, and not a case of imperialist hypocrisy to Biblical proportions.
(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 09:49 (UTC)https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/24/juan-guaido-venezuelas-opposition-leader-declares-himself-interim-president
(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 15:38 (UTC)And it really doesn't help that Leftie Pinochet is the adored idol behind the 'Economic Miracle' and the actual Proletarian is the squalid ogre who presides over the dissolution of the Great Venezuelan Mirage.
The people damning Maduro or pretending he's the one that sent it to shit while defending him are willfully deceiving themselves.
The USA, meanwhile, has an idiot who literally proceeds to take the most foolish and self-destructive option on the list every single time without error mulling involvement that cannot, by definition, go well.
(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 09:50 (UTC)You may not bother to answer. That was a rhetorical question.
(puts on helmet)
Date: 24/1/19 12:28 (UTC)We've been meddling there for a while now - so we must see it through. No leaving. We will be greeted as liberators?
Re: (puts on helmet)
Date: 24/1/19 13:04 (UTC)Re: (puts on helmet)
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From:(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 13:54 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 14:40 (UTC)Depends on what you mean by meddle. So far the US has rolled out the unwelcome mat for a few dozen Venezuelan officials and prevented the government of Venezuela from using the US financial system. I'd say neither of these violate Venezuelan sovereignty. A country can deny entry to whomever they want for whatever reason they want, it's their sovereign right. If Greece wants to deny entry to Macedonians because they don't like their country's name, it's not up to anyone else to say they can't. You can say it's stupid, but ultimately, it's Greece's decision. Same with the US financial system, the regulation of which is completely up to the US government, following whatever treaties the US government has signed up for.
As far as recognizing the opposition leader, the US is on pretty firm footing here as well. When the coup happened in Honduras, many of those same voices calling for the US to stop interfering in Venezuela were calling for the US to interfere in Honduras. As a member of the OAS, Honduras had some obligations to maintain a democratic form of government and they failed in this. The OAS suspended their membership and the US stopped providing development aid until new elections were called. Venezuela supported their suspension from the OAS and refused to recognize the government of Roberto Micheletti.
Well, Mr. Maduro has sidelined the National Assembly and the mandate from his original election has ended. The last election wasn't recognized as valid by the US, Canada, the EU, Australia, and most South American countries. As such, he's broken the democratic order in Venezuela. Of course, the elections were recognized as valid by Russia, China, Cuba, Syria, Iran, and North Korea. Personally, I'd feel better taking the side of the former group rather than the latter when it comes to determining if an election is valid. As such, the US has a pretty good case to recognize Juan Guaido, the head of the National Assembly.
The US has absolutely no case to intervene militarily and I hope to God we don't. Outside of the Venezuelan opposition, Mr. Trump seems to be the only one who thinks this is a good idea. Unfortunately he has way too much authority in this matter. Venezuela might descend from an authoritarian dictatorship into a totalitarian dictatorship, and if it does, the US should absolutely stand by and limit our action to sending thoughts, prayers, and aid to the neighboring countries who will suffer most from the refugee crisis. It's not that this is a great course of action, it's just that anything else will be worse.
And would it ultimately backfire (again)?
Well, Venezuela has kinda gone to shit, largely due to it's own government's actions, and it's going to take a few decades to make a comeback. Venezuela could quickly get a lot better after some impossibly wise actions by the US and would still be in worse shape than it was a decade ago, which would lead many to say things have backfired. So, yeah, by any measure, the US will be in worse shape for intervening than for not doing so. The other option is to stand by and let the refugee crisis continue to build while Venezuelans starve and the government continues to refuse aid, saying there is no crisis.
(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 15:39 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 15:32 (UTC)Even in the crude and amoral calculus of imperial geopolitics states should only do this if they know they can pull it off, and I frankly see anything Trump would do as guaranteed to backfire in the most ironic and humiliating fashion possible for the USA, while leaving Venezuela worse off by far than it already is.
Dictators that refuse to simply yield power swiftly have a lot of other options. And it is rather difficult to remove someone who's extremely ruthless and determined to maintain a hold on power. And any large-scale US influence right now is exactly what Maduro would need to keep it.
Obvious case in point: Bashar Al-Assad in Syria.
(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 12:03 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 14:13 (UTC)Colombia, Brazil, and a few other South American countries, on the other hand, are having some very different experiences. This didn't take a conflict to cause and there probably (and hopefully) won't be a conflict. Still, there will probably be more Venezuelan refugees by the end of this year than Syrian ones.
(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 14:51 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 24/1/19 15:36 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 24/1/19 15:36 (UTC)That said there's already been three million Venezuelan refugees that have swarmed areas and I would be genuinely surprised if a great deal of those 'Mexicans' even liberal white Americans lazily lump in with everyone else from Down South are actually Venezuelans. Not that us Yanks would notice or give a damn. We're the ones who dictate, not the ones who are dictated too and the exercise of power permits the luxury of ignorance.
(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 12:31 (UTC)Repealing net neutrality? Literally billions will literally die.
Supporting a coup? Crickets.
(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 13:55 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 13:57 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 15:11 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 15:34 (UTC)Honduras was a singular exception to that rule, and it's one that the USA largely overlooks for the same reason it forgets all about every other illegal and unethical act Democratic Administrations have done since the Carter era.
1968 in the USA is allowed to influence 2019 in a continuous historical narrative. 2011 is not.
(no subject)
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Date: 24/1/19 20:39 (UTC)https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/aj50g9/who_is_recognized_as_the_president_of_venezuela/
(no subject)
Date: 24/1/19 22:56 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 25/1/19 19:40 (UTC)https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/ajg4ra/updated_124_venezuela_presidential_crisis_map/
(no subject)
Date: 29/1/19 18:48 (UTC)https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/28/politics/white-house-bolton-colombia/index.html?utm_term=image&utm_source=twCNNp&utm_content=2019-01-29T01%3A49%3A02&utm_medium=social
(no subject)
Date: 29/1/19 19:22 (UTC)