[identity profile] paft.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
From an unsigned editorial in the Wall Street Journal: Egyptians would be lucky if their new ruling generals turn out to be in the mold of Chile's Augusto Pinochet, who took power amid chaos but hired free-market reformers and midwifed a transition to democracy.


The anonymous writers of this piece know perfectly well what they are saying and what they are doing. They are saying that "free-market reform" and a "transition to democracy" sometimes requires the vicious and murderous repression of anyone who openly opposes "free-market reform." They are saying that a leftist like Salvador Allende being legally elected to office does not qualify as "democracy," and warrants a violent overthrow so that "true" democracy -- one where people on the left have no real say or influence -- can flourish.

They are putting this on their editorial page because they know rancid nostalgia for a torturer and killer of leftists and liberals will appeal, not just to the current base Republican "base," but to the influential monied interests determined to hang on to their power in spite of growing popular anger and skepticism.

Pinochet fans on the lower levels, right wing bloggers and their commenters, etc., tend to be fairly direct about what they find appealing in Pinochet. The idea of forcibly removing, not just liberal and leftist politicians, but their liberal and leftist neighbors from the public sphere makes them happy. Hence the emphasis on guns, on changing the political landscape, not through elections and legislation, but by raw, physical force. The apologists for Pinochet on the upper levels, however, often adopt an air of unfocussed euphemism --"Took power amid chaos" for someone blasting his way into power using military force, "midwifed a transition to democracy" for murdering and torturing thousands of citizens.

I'm no mind-reader, so I can't say for certain to what extent these high level Pinochet fans personally embrace the violence of Pinochet's regime. It often seems more a matter of deliberately unfocussing their eyes and carefully looking somewhere other than the blood-spattered walls of the Villa Grimaldi, while congratulating themselves on their own clear-sighted realism. They want what they want, and if they can't get it through suppressing the vote, gerrymandering, or other subversions of democracy, well, sometimes what Jonah Goldberg so elegantly referred to as "dispatching souls" is necessary.

If someone took this comparison literally and decided American needed a Pinochet and they were going to step up to the plate, would the reaction from those high-level Pinochet apologists include an agonized reassessment of their fondness for the Chilean dictator?

Why would it? For all their euphemisms, they know perfectly well what Pinochet did. If they could rationalize what Pinochet did in Chile, and wish for it to happen in Egypt why would they not rationalize some free-market right winger in the military doing it here?

*

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Date: 7/7/13 20:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] prog-expat.livejournal.com
"...midwifed a transition to democracy."

Seventeen years is one Hell of a long birth.

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Date: 7/7/13 20:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enders-shadow.livejournal.com
Lao-Tzu took 9 years to birth.

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Date: 8/7/13 16:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Midwifery is really big with the hippie set.

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Date: 7/7/13 20:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] geezer-also.livejournal.com
"Unsigned", "Anonymous".....is this unusual for a paper's lead editorial? I just checked the Daily News to make sure I didn't remember wrong...nope lead editorial not attributed. So given this seems to be SOP (I remember the L.A. Times being that way too) so my first question is, why mention it not once but twice? It's not relevant.

" base Republican "base,"...points for that, but even more points showing that the anti-Morsi group is " the influential monied interests determined to hang on to their power in spite of growing popular anger and skepticism. "

I'm not really sure how you extrapolated from your italicized header into " why would they not rationalize some free-market right winger in the military doing it here? "
But I'm glad you did because after reading your post and the editorial several times I am ready to move a postulate of mine into an axiom: "Context in an internet discussion only matters if it fits my position." Thank you

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Date: 7/7/13 22:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] policraticus.livejournal.com
If one says "the best they can hope for is a Pinochet," that doesn't mean, "Pinochet was good." It simply recognizes that, of the available bad options for Egypt, a Pinochet-style strong man is the least bad one available. It doesn't take a fondness for Pinochet to recognize that, whatever happened in the aftermath of the coup and the years of authoritarianism, Chile today is a free, liberal, constitutional, self-governing nation with multiple parties, tolerance, civil rights, a vibrant culture and economic opportunity. They got there down a bloody road, but, on the whole, a much less bloody road than, say, Germany. Could it have gone differently? Perhaps better? I don't know. The road left untaken is easy to romanticize. While it might be wished that Mr. Morsi had proven an able and inclusive democrat who was dedicated to freedom and opportunity for all Egyptians, that is not how it turned out. A large portion of the the citizens of Egypt and the Egyptian military have indicated that it is time for a change. Will this end with roses and champagne all around? I doubt it. But, in 25 years, if Egypt has the same GDP and social development as Chile, then I'd take that. Especially since I don't have to actually live in Egypt.

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Date: 8/7/13 00:44 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
Chile today is a free, liberal, constitutional, self-governing nation with multiple parties, tolerance, civil rights, a vibrant culture and economic opportunity.

FACT: Germany was better off after WWII than before it, ergo, Hitler was awesome, amirite?


Pinochet's economics were disastrous for regular Chileans. GDP went up, but so did unemployment and poverty. If you weren't in the ruling elite, you got nothing (well, worse than nothing, you got disappeared a lot of the time). The only thing that kept the government solvent during his rule was the state owned mining company; in other words, the exact opposite to what his policy was.

Chile is the example that disproves neo-liberal economics. Trying to pretend otherwise is negationist revisionism at it's worst.

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Date: 8/7/13 03:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
the implication is that Pinochet was responsible for the successes of Chile, and that's very arguable in all sorts of ways.

I agree with anfalacios: Chile succeeded in spite of Pinochet, not because of him.

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Date: 8/7/13 05:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
This doesn't even hold water. Egypt is certainly in a chaotic state right now, but they've finally gotten rid of a corrupt autocrat. There's no need to start hoping for another.

Maybe if they had said this about Syria it would hold water, but there is still hope that Egypt can come out of this without a few thousand people being killed by the government and less than seventeen years of dictatorship.

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Date: 10/7/13 11:56 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
I do know that Morsi was in the midst of taking down democracy himself, but did Allende actually do anything equivalent? We should not dignify a Night of the Long Knives by calling it some roadmark to freedom, given that in one form or another the Egyptian military has been running Egypt ever since that Albanian called himself Khedive. Some things are not like other things. Also, Chile *was* very democratic before it had the misfortune to democratically elect the 'wrong' person by the standards of the USA.

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Date: 7/7/13 22:59 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
Sort of off topic, but John Kerry's wife was taken into the Emergency room early this AM and is in critical condition. The hospital didn't release any information on her condition.

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Date: 8/7/13 00:31 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
lol...

Wow...

Really?

I guess if your perspective is "what's good for America is good for democracy" then an authoritarian kleptocrat selling his countries assets to US corporations whilst simultaneously acting as a labour enforcer for those corporations is probably a good role model. It'll suck for the Egyptians though.

Mostly I'm just shocked there are people out there who still don't have Pinochet on their list of the 20th centuries biggest monsters.

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Date: 8/7/13 00:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] foreverbeach.livejournal.com
In the United States, the force of taxation is used to create massive dependency classes which serve as a constituency to politicians on the left. Thus "free-market" right-wingers are being forced out of government. When you consider that the federal budget alone is some $3.8 Trillion, it's obvious that free-marketeers have been utterly beaten. So not only are your fears entirely unfounded, but the opposite is occurring.

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Date: 8/7/13 00:59 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
You know that tax to GDP is lower in the US than pretty much every other OECD country, and lower than it has been since the 50s.

In other words, your reality is wrong, even if you think the neo-libs haven't gone far enough, they definitely are not beaten, they are winning and getting stronger.

Or you can keep making stuff up to fit that narrative you want to tell yourself.

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Date: 8/7/13 14:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brother-dour.livejournal.com
I'll believe that when 90% of the nation's wealth is not owned by 1% of the nation's population.

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Date: 8/7/13 16:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
I am quite familiar with the American dependency class. They mostly report to this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Hagel).

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Date: 10/7/13 19:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
What are you talking about?

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Date: 8/7/13 07:08 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
"They are putting this on their editorial page because they know rancid nostalgia for a torturer and killer of leftists and liberals will appeal, not just to the current base Republican "base," but to the influential monied interests determined to hang on to their power in spite of growing popular anger and skepticism."

Reading the comments, there doesn't seem to be much nostalgia among the Republican "base" for Pinochet. I didn't read all of the comments in this article, but the ones I did read generally either Obama bashing or saying "Pinochet, WTF?!?" The appeal to the Republican "base" seems very limited.

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Date: 8/7/13 14:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brother-dour.livejournal.com
Two thoughts:

Hence the emphasis on guns, on changing the political landscape, not through elections and legislation, but by raw, physical force.
Why should the GOP want to use force when legislation and moreover Big Business lobbying is serving perfectly well?

Also, did Chile have the same checks and balances that the U.S. has? My guess is, no. But all countries are the same so if it happens in one place that means it is automatically in danger of happening everywhere else that is vaguely similar, right?
Edited Date: 8/7/13 14:25 (UTC)

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Date: 8/7/13 16:50 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
Pinochet was the Chilean form of American checks and balances. He ensured that progress was not made.

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Date: 8/7/13 16:48 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sophia-sadek.livejournal.com
To give the guy the benefit of the doubt, he is an expert on Egypt. He might know as little about Pinochet as the average Sarah Palin fan knows (about Pinochet, or any other topic).

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Date: 10/7/13 11:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
I'd argue that the simplest guarantee against a US military dictatorship is and has always been that the USA doesn't have a military large enough to take over the USA even if it decided to actually try.

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Date: 10/7/13 16:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sandwichwarrior.livejournal.com
Keep that in mind next time you start waxing on about who all (Big-L) Libertarians are idiots for believing that the US Government lacks the manpower and morale to fight a 4th gen insurgency.

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