[identity profile] paft.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
From an unsigned editorial in the Wall Street Journal: Egyptians would be lucky if their new ruling generals turn out to be in the mold of Chile's Augusto Pinochet, who took power amid chaos but hired free-market reformers and midwifed a transition to democracy.


The anonymous writers of this piece know perfectly well what they are saying and what they are doing. They are saying that "free-market reform" and a "transition to democracy" sometimes requires the vicious and murderous repression of anyone who openly opposes "free-market reform." They are saying that a leftist like Salvador Allende being legally elected to office does not qualify as "democracy," and warrants a violent overthrow so that "true" democracy -- one where people on the left have no real say or influence -- can flourish.

They are putting this on their editorial page because they know rancid nostalgia for a torturer and killer of leftists and liberals will appeal, not just to the current base Republican "base," but to the influential monied interests determined to hang on to their power in spite of growing popular anger and skepticism.

Pinochet fans on the lower levels, right wing bloggers and their commenters, etc., tend to be fairly direct about what they find appealing in Pinochet. The idea of forcibly removing, not just liberal and leftist politicians, but their liberal and leftist neighbors from the public sphere makes them happy. Hence the emphasis on guns, on changing the political landscape, not through elections and legislation, but by raw, physical force. The apologists for Pinochet on the upper levels, however, often adopt an air of unfocussed euphemism --"Took power amid chaos" for someone blasting his way into power using military force, "midwifed a transition to democracy" for murdering and torturing thousands of citizens.

I'm no mind-reader, so I can't say for certain to what extent these high level Pinochet fans personally embrace the violence of Pinochet's regime. It often seems more a matter of deliberately unfocussing their eyes and carefully looking somewhere other than the blood-spattered walls of the Villa Grimaldi, while congratulating themselves on their own clear-sighted realism. They want what they want, and if they can't get it through suppressing the vote, gerrymandering, or other subversions of democracy, well, sometimes what Jonah Goldberg so elegantly referred to as "dispatching souls" is necessary.

If someone took this comparison literally and decided American needed a Pinochet and they were going to step up to the plate, would the reaction from those high-level Pinochet apologists include an agonized reassessment of their fondness for the Chilean dictator?

Why would it? For all their euphemisms, they know perfectly well what Pinochet did. If they could rationalize what Pinochet did in Chile, and wish for it to happen in Egypt why would they not rationalize some free-market right winger in the military doing it here?

*

(no subject)

Date: 7/7/13 23:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
So the far left, not actually anyone of consequence.

(no subject)

Date: 8/7/13 04:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
....naturally outraged.....

how's that? makes sense?

(no subject)

Date: 8/7/13 00:02 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
It was in The Guardian, so it was international!!11

(no subject)

Date: 8/7/13 00:08 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
Not really. I know you have your thing about people who dare praise the outcome in Chile, and it's not worth discussing with you given your past conduct on the matter, so I'm largely staying out.

(no subject)

Date: 8/7/13 00:14 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
I didn't, in part because you distorted my point of view, but like I said, I'm not interested.

(no subject)

Date: 8/7/13 00:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
There are plenty of people I would love to get into a conversation about Chile with.

(no subject)

Date: 8/7/13 00:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
What is there to praise about Pinochet? The guy was evil. You can't go on and on about Chavez being the next Hitler and give Pinochet a free pass, the guy was quantifiably worse than Chavez.

(no subject)

Date: 8/7/13 00:44 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
Worse than Chavez? No. Pinochet entered power in an unnecessarily bloody way, but he also left the country significantly better off than where it started, with a much freer, more democratic society.

It's praising him with significant damnation.

(no subject)

Date: 8/7/13 00:55 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
This is where we live in different realities. The country was better off, if you were in the top 5% of the population; Chavez left the vast majority better off. And it wasn't more free and democratic, it was free and democratic before Pinochet. Democracy in Chile occurred in spite of him, not because of him.

But anyway, we can't discuss this because we're unlikely to agree on any of the facts.

(no subject)

Date: 8/7/13 00:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
Right. I can't see eye to eye with someone who thinks Chavez improved the lives of his people.

(no subject)

Date: 8/7/13 01:14 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
He reduced poverty, increased literacy, increased wages and decreased infant mortality. Most of these by over half/double. I'll give you that the place got more violent, however.

Pinochet made it great to be rich.

This is why we have fundamental differences over whether or not they were good governments. For me, good governments do the greatest good for the greatest number, for you good governments allow individuals to amass the most wealth and power.

(no subject)

Date: 8/7/13 01:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
For me, good governments do the greatest good for the greatest number, for you good governments allow individuals to amass the most wealth and power.

Actually, we agree on what a good government is. We disagree on who achieves it and how.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com - Date: 8/7/13 01:21 (UTC) - Expand

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Date: 8/7/13 01:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
Also, Pinochet entered power in an unnecessarily bloody way. Good to see that your problem with the overthrowing of a democratically elected government was that it was "unnecessarily bloody".

(no subject)

Date: 8/7/13 01:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
Allende was already having his government declared unlawful before Pinochet rode in, so the idea that Allende was acting within his bounds (never mind the questions about his election to begin with) is stretching the definition a bit. Had he stayed in office and the military not acted (and this is, again, not a defense of the military moves against Allende), the nation likely would have dissolved into civil war.

(no subject)

Date: 8/7/13 01:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anfalicious.livejournal.com
The country was in turmoil because of CIA destabilisation, who were doing so so they could put Pinochet in.

I really can't believe you're arguing this one. Chile is the text book case of US imperialism.

I'm out, you're just too blinded by your nationalism to see any issue in Latin America with any sense of sanity. Pinochet was a bad dude, did bad things and the country only recovered when they got rid of him. Case closed, argument over.

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Date: 11/7/13 02:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/ is the "far left"? Wow.

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