Pinochet Nostalgia
7/7/13 11:48![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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talkpoliticsFrom an unsigned editorial in the Wall Street Journal: Egyptians would be lucky if their new ruling generals turn out to be in the mold of Chile's Augusto Pinochet, who took power amid chaos but hired free-market reformers and midwifed a transition to democracy.
The anonymous writers of this piece know perfectly well what they are saying and what they are doing. They are saying that "free-market reform" and a "transition to democracy" sometimes requires the vicious and murderous repression of anyone who openly opposes "free-market reform." They are saying that a leftist like Salvador Allende being legally elected to office does not qualify as "democracy," and warrants a violent overthrow so that "true" democracy -- one where people on the left have no real say or influence -- can flourish.
They are putting this on their editorial page because they know rancid nostalgia for a torturer and killer of leftists and liberals will appeal, not just to the current base Republican "base," but to the influential monied interests determined to hang on to their power in spite of growing popular anger and skepticism.
Pinochet fans on the lower levels, right wing bloggers and their commenters, etc., tend to be fairly direct about what they find appealing in Pinochet. The idea of forcibly removing, not just liberal and leftist politicians, but their liberal and leftist neighbors from the public sphere makes them happy. Hence the emphasis on guns, on changing the political landscape, not through elections and legislation, but by raw, physical force. The apologists for Pinochet on the upper levels, however, often adopt an air of unfocussed euphemism --"Took power amid chaos" for someone blasting his way into power using military force, "midwifed a transition to democracy" for murdering and torturing thousands of citizens.
I'm no mind-reader, so I can't say for certain to what extent these high level Pinochet fans personally embrace the violence of Pinochet's regime. It often seems more a matter of deliberately unfocussing their eyes and carefully looking somewhere other than the blood-spattered walls of the Villa Grimaldi, while congratulating themselves on their own clear-sighted realism. They want what they want, and if they can't get it through suppressing the vote, gerrymandering, or other subversions of democracy, well, sometimes what Jonah Goldberg so elegantly referred to as "dispatching souls" is necessary.
If someone took this comparison literally and decided American needed a Pinochet and they were going to step up to the plate, would the reaction from those high-level Pinochet apologists include an agonized reassessment of their fondness for the Chilean dictator?
Why would it? For all their euphemisms, they know perfectly well what Pinochet did. If they could rationalize what Pinochet did in Chile, and wish for it to happen in Egypt why would they not rationalize some free-market right winger in the military doing it here?
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(no subject)
Date: 7/7/13 21:53 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 7/7/13 21:57 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 7/7/13 22:19 (UTC)The "smiley bit" means "end sarcasm".
" And if America legally elected a socialist president who began to enact socialist reforms, would this justify a military coup and the murder and torture of thousands of Americans?" is a serious question? Ok. My answer was "no".
The editorial was talking about what to do in Egypt, a place that doesn't have much experience with democracy, particularly now that they're in the middle of a popular overthrow/military coup.
(no subject)
Date: 7/7/13 22:46 (UTC)THANKyou!
There now, that wasn't so bad, was it?
And yet, the Wall Street Journal says that what Pinochet did in Chile -- the military overthrow of a legally elected socialist president who was instituting socialist policies -- was admirable.
So why would the Wall Street Journal not apply that to the United States?
(no subject)
Date: 8/7/13 00:07 (UTC)It doesn't say that.
Among other things, they are not advocating the overthrow of the government, the overthrow has already occurred.
(no subject)
Date: 8/7/13 00:15 (UTC)Let's be clear on this.
Chile was democratic BEFORE Pinochet violently took over and began torturing and murdering Chileans. Salvador Allende was democratically and legally elected. Critics of Salvador Allende could express their opinions without fear of being arrested, tortured, and killed merely for criticizing Salvador Allende. Chile was an open and democratic society.
Pinochet took over. Suddenly, speaking openly was a crime that could get you kidnapped, horribly tortured, and murdered. To call this "midwifing democracy" is an affront to democracy.
(no subject)
Date: 8/7/13 00:19 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 8/7/13 00:19 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 10/7/13 16:32 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 10/7/13 19:57 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 10/7/13 20:15 (UTC)Had the article been written prior, you might have had a point. It was not.
What it says is that now that there has been a coup, and a strongman is in charge, "Chile on the Nile" is probably the best case scenario.
(no subject)
Date: 10/7/13 20:33 (UTC)You and others here seem absolutely determined to pretend the WSJ writers didn't attempt to soft-pedal Pinochet's acts. Villa Grimaldi was "midwifing democracy?" Seriously?
(no subject)
Date: 10/7/13 20:55 (UTC)So yes, that is the best case scenario that we can reasonably expect.
If in 15 years Egypt is where Chile is now, that will be a good thing indeed.
(no subject)
Date: 10/7/13 21:01 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 10/7/13 22:25 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 10/7/13 22:35 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 11/7/13 00:03 (UTC)Fact remains that Egypt, and the Middle East in general is economically and socially fucked. They are not going to gang-rape their way to being Swedish style social democrats (http://www.npr.org/2013/07/07/199557748/sexual-assaults-reportedly-rampant-during-egypt-protests). Now that the Mamluks are back in charge a Pinochet style regime really is the best we can realistically hope for.
(no subject)
Date: 11/7/13 14:02 (UTC)You seem to have little problem with other people offering up that alternate history but, as usual, you get all squeamish when faced with the prospect of actually discussing what that would mean.
(no subject)
Date: 11/7/13 15:36 (UTC)Yes, a Pinochet would represent a dramatic improvement. Because if in 15 years Egypt is where Chile is now that will be a good thing. The political torture and murder is already happening the question is where do you want it to end? In another Arab failed state a-la Afghanistan or in a functional and open society?
I know which one I'm rooting for
(no subject)
Date: 12/7/13 00:35 (UTC)Well before the toll reaches Pinochet's approximately 3,000 dead and tens of thousands tortured.
(no subject)
Date: 9/7/13 02:34 (UTC)It's not like Pinochet stepped in and said "Stop this madness! Oh, the President is already dead? Well, I'll take control and get the nation back on track." He was involved with the coup while it was still in the planning phases.
Even if the "chaos" they refer to is the economic roller-coaster that preceded the coup, it's been public knowledge since documents were declassified in the 90s that the Nixon Administration was involved with that, and had been working behind the scenes to derail Allende even when he was just another candidate in 1970.
(no subject)
Date: 9/7/13 03:04 (UTC)I'm not defending Pinochet, I'm barely even talking about him. I am trying to point out that the overthrow in Egypt happened before the editorial was published, so that the WSJ isn't advocating the overthrow of a democratic government.
(no subject)
Date: 9/7/13 03:12 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 9/7/13 03:34 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 9/7/13 14:34 (UTC)Then they should find a better example than Pinochet, who used torture, extrajudicial killings, and a reign of terror to cow his countryman into silence for seventeen years and whose economy only remained solvent on the back of the state-owned mining company as an example of how to transition from non-free market democratic regime to free market democratic regime.