[identity profile] kinvore.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics


Yes I know it's Rachel and therefore biased, so take it with a grain of salt. However if you have any facts that disprove what she's saying then I'd like to know. Seriously I do, because I don't want to believe that the GOP has sunk this low.

Otherwise she's managed to demonstrate both class warfare AND tyranny all in one douchebag, err governor.

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Date: 11/3/11 13:26 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] agk-ru.livejournal.com
I'll be damned. Can THAT be true?

I am not surprised with taking from the poor and giving to the rich, that's what they are doing everywhere, including Russia.

But to cinically ban all the elected bodies upon arbitrary declaration of the "state of emergeny" - in peace time - is really something monstrous.

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Date: 11/3/11 13:41 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Um, what's the vid about, dear?

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Date: 11/3/11 14:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
Maddow alleges a few things: that Michigan's budget raises taxes on seniors and the poor, and that it's giving out a similar amount in tax breaks to businesses.

The more interesting bit is after the break. The budget is cutting major amounts of aid to cities and towns. There's a bill that allows the governor to declare a town/city to be in dire financial straits, and appoint someone to oversee their recovery. Only that overseer gets to unilaterally cancel contracts, suspend collective bargaining, and, oh, right, dismiss elected officials.

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Date: 11/3/11 14:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
Oh, and they can disincorporate cities and towns entirely.

Robocop

Date: 11/3/11 14:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] russj.livejournal.com
It sounds like the movie Robocop - where some evil corporation ran the town of Detroit, Michigan.

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Date: 11/3/11 13:46 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jonathankorman.livejournal.com
biased

I'm not sure what that means in this context.

One odd thought: this is weirdly reminiscent of No Child Left Behind, which creates standards which are effectively impossible for schools to meet, eventually leading to dramatic interventions.
the school must be restructured; this means either that it is turned into a charter school; all or most of the staff is replaced; a private company is hired to manage the school; or the state takes over the management of the school
I'm not sure that the comparison really teaches us anything, but it did jump out at me as I was watching the clip.

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Date: 11/3/11 15:11 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
I'm not sure what that means in this context.

It means her ideology trumps her accuracy.

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Date: 11/3/11 13:50 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blorky.livejournal.com
I think some of the logic behind tax breaks are to increase investment and address MI's terrible unemployment rate. The problem with that is that state corporate tax rate breaks aren't really shown to increase investment. Most economic stimulus is worked out on the local level in the form of property tax abatement on equipment.

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Date: 11/3/11 14:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] skull-bearer.livejournal.com
Wow. The Reichstag just burnt down.

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Date: 11/3/11 14:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlankers.livejournal.com
Wow. They really want the political world of the 1930s but the military of the 21st Century then. Dipshit A-holes'll ruin the country they keep doing this. >.<

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Date: 11/3/11 14:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malasadas.livejournal.com
I am sorry but we are fresh out of outrage. Please stand by and we expect a fresh resupply of quality outrage from the warehouse soon. Meanwhile, please return to your seats, relax and enjoy our fine selection of Menudo albums.

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Date: 11/3/11 15:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dwer.livejournal.com
do you have 'Lo Que en Una Epoca Fue'?

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Date: 11/3/11 19:41 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paedraggaidin.livejournal.com
The UPS man damaged my outrage again. It barely qualifies as "slightly annoyed" now. :(

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Date: 11/3/11 15:04 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pastorlenny.livejournal.com
One small note. It might be wise not to refer to corporate tax cuts as breaks "for the rich," as though the policy was related to personal income. I'm not defending the governor's apparent policy -- but it's not that useful to conflate private enterprise with personal wealth.

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Date: 11/3/11 17:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rasilio.livejournal.com
Funny actually because while this is one of the few issues where I would agree with you, in this case you seem to be wrong because the effective business tax cut taking place is to remove all LLC's and S Corp's and other small business from the tax rolls on the theory that all of those corporations profits were already being taxed as personal income of their owners (which is true) and therefore they were being double taxed.

So to the extent that these small business owners are rich (some are, others barely even qualify as middle class) will no longer be double taxed on the profits of their business these are about "personal income"

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Date: 11/3/11 15:11 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
The business/corporate tax rate is being adjusted (http://michigan.gov/documents/budget/1_345974_7.pdf), not really cut. Many businesses will see their taxes increase, while some will no longer have to file - the ones that do have to file will be businesses that cater to rich clientele or have massive profits, so there's now a significant reason for small business to come into Michigan.

Maddow also says he's targeting seniors, but it's only taxing pension income, which doesn't seem unfair. Social Security is not going to be taxed (http://news.michiganradio.org/post/state-income-tax-pensions), and the claim that the taxes are going to be increased on the poor is not true, as Snyder is only looking to halt the scheduled decreases for a time. No one, from the looks of things, will be paying more in income taxes. Not great, but Michigan's got a lot of problems thanks to Snyder's predecessors.

The kicker is the deductions, which impact everybody (http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20110219/NEWS04/102190315/Deductions-targeted-under-Snyder-s-budget-plan-Michigan), not just the poor as Maddow claims/implies. Besides, many of these deductions go toward charitable donations, which poor people, generally speaking, aren't doing.

So no, Snyder is not taxing "old people and poor people and giving it away." He's looking to actually get Michigan off its death bed, and looking for everyone to buy into it.

As for the "financial emergency" thing, it's just the ability to put towns into a form of receivership. What Maddow (tellingly) doesn't inform her audience about is that certain triggers must be hit (http://www.detnews.com/article/20110310/POLITICS02/103100375/1022/local/Financial-manager-bill-passes-Michigan-Senate) to review these towns, not "when the governor says so." She can't tell you this because she's too busy demagoguing.

People really need to stop watching Rachel Maddow if they want to be informed, because this is getting ridiculous. Took me five minutes to do what her paid staff could not.

ETA: I started to post, then decided to look into it, and edited my beginning out that reflected my pre-investigation thoughts, in case you were wondering.
Edited Date: 11/3/11 15:13 (UTC)

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Date: 11/3/11 15:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-new-machine.livejournal.com
Thanks for the research. Still, I dislike the dismissal of elected officials.

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Date: 11/3/11 15:14 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rasilio.livejournal.com
Don't know about this. First I've heard of it but I find 3 possibilities equally likely...

1) The Bill doesn't really say what Maddow says it does and she is confused or more likely deliberately spinning it to appear worse than it really is. Sort of like a video clip that has been going around facebook about the idiotic Georgia Law requiring police investigations in the event of a miscarriage. Yes, bad idea, worse law and absolutely unconstitutional in a dozen ways, however the MSNBC clip pushed it as a mandatory death sentence for women if they miscarry never mentioning what the bill actually said.

2) The bill does say what she says it does but it was not intentional but was rather unintended consequences of honest attempts to solve real problems created by not very well thought out verbage.

3) The bill does say what she says it does and this particular group of Republicrats is in fact this slimy and cynical and have learned their lessons of never letting a crisis go to waste from Obama and Co


One thing I think is funny though is her constant implication that there isn't actually a budget crisis in these states and that the Republicrats are manufacturing the whole thing. No Rachel, I have news for you, your buddies in the Public Sector Unions have screwed the states, counties, cities, and towns over thoroughly and it IS a problem, what the Republicrats are doing to resolve the problem may or may not be right but anyone who tries to argue that there is no problem is either willfully ignorant or outright lying.

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Date: 11/3/11 16:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com
It's been long held up as a model that government should be run more like a business, and it seems only sensible to just let business run government.

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Date: 11/3/11 18:41 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paft.livejournal.com
This makes voter suppression and gerrymandering look small time. Michigan Governor Rick Snyder wants the ability to essentially roll his own the tanks into a any town, disincorporate it and sell off its assets.

My question is, given that some towns and residents will probably object rather strongly to being told that all those votes they cast in local elections don’t count any more, how does Snyder plan to deal with resistance from the locals?

The national guard, maybe?

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Date: 11/3/11 20:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Yes, probably he'll organize a massacre of democrats or something.

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Date: 12/3/11 02:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malasadas.livejournal.com
Your skinny ass state can't keep building roads over swamps either.

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Date: 12/3/11 18:15 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vinnypoh.livejournal.com
By the way, what happened to Wiskonsin?

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Date: 12/3/11 23:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
It's still there AFAIK.

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Date: 12/3/11 23:06 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
I'm having a hard time not calling outright class warfare anymore. I mean, before I could as a joke, but now I just don't know anymore.

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