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In early 1994, I was walking through the Makiki neighborhood of Honolulu on my way to a weekend event at the high school where I taught. I was 24 and had been a teacher for all of half a school year. It was, to be honest, a hard transition having moved 6000 miles from home and having just lost my grandfather a month earlier, but I was growing to truly love my new home and my job.
So I was just about to cross one of the main roads, and I witnessed a group of boys -- about 11-12 years old or so -- taking turns running into the street, lying down and then getting up and running to the other side. They did this several times, even as cars were coming rumbling down the blind corner of the hill just to the mountain side of the neighborhood.
And I lit into them. Probably my first true moment of generational ranting and fueled by my own recent loss, I yelled at them for risking that, told them their parents would be crushed if they got hurt and what about a poor driver who'd have to live with hitting them if they kept up that nonsense? For good measure, I told them if they didn't leave right then and there, I'd get a cop and have them dragged home kicking and screaming. I'm not exactly a scary guy, but they left.
I found out later that there was either a popular TV show or movie that was out at the time that had people doing stupid stunts and that these kids were likely immitating it. Over the next years in the classroom, it was pretty evident that popular culture and discourse was pretty capable of working quite a lot of influence on people. Students of mine spent a disconcerting amount of time treating me to their renditions of Beavis and Butthead, and a generation of students who were familiar with the Ricki Lake Show and Jerry Springer betrayed signs of having become convinced that the person who shouts the loudest wins the argument. As a twenty-something college graduate, I was afflicted with the particular conceit that the media reflects rather than influences society, but my work teaching pushed the credulity of that.
I think it is obviously true that words and messages have impact. If they didn't American businesses would probably have better uses for the $125 billion (more or less) they spend on advertising. On a personal level, I am sure if words and images did not matter, I wouldn't find Progressive Insurance Company to be cute and perky despite my having no personal experience with the company beyond its advertising front:

Let me get a couple of points of bias aside before continuing:
First, I do think our political rhetoric has become poisoned in America. It is not that people were not fierce partisans in the past, and it is not that we have not had even WORSE political environments where hot words were actually matched with hot deeds (think of Bleeding Kansas and why that name actually applied as an example). However, in my lifetime, there has been a substantial upping of the ante in political rhetoric in the mainstream of commentary, activism and even political leaders that would have been pretty unthinkable except in the margins previously. Since my first year in college, Democrats have gone from being "soft on defense" and "tax and spend liberals" to "traitors" and "socialists". Republicans have gone from being "the party of the rich" to "fascists" who'd just as soon see the poor die.
I won't be so disengenuous to say that there isn't a stridency on the left of American politics. It is that stridency that prevented me, despite my strong opposition to the war in Iraq, from joining street protests and limited my activism to letter writing and door to door canvassing during the elections. It was because I did not want to stand next to this:

or this:

My arguments with the Bush administration were based upon his adherence to a Nixonian theory of Presidential power and his launching a war of choice against the wrong enemy -- not that he had seized all the levers of government in a dictatorship and launched a ruthless total war and genocide across an entire continent. Lacking a taste for hysteria and hyperbole, I worked a lot more quietly.
With that said, I do agree with people who claim the conservative wing of American politics has gone far and beyond in recent years. That's an impression and an opinion and there will be people who vigorously disagree with it -- and I'm fine with that. I stand by the observation because I simply have not seen an equivalent number of liberal media personalities with the same reach and audience as Limbaugh, Coulter, Beck and Malkin pursuing the rhetorical excess that typifies these people. Nor do I see an equivalent number of Democratic elected officials who imitate the voices of the most extreme commentators on the left. Further, there has been an even more extreme coarsening of the tone from hyperbolic claims (Obama is a Socialist!) and counterfactual assertions (Obamacare is going to kill my baby with Downs Syndrome!) to implications that we are near a point where "government tyranny" will require a violent response.
All of that said, I stand by my initial rant about the response to Congresswoman Giffords being shot...abundant use of the word "fuck" and all.
A great many on my side of the political aisle immediately saw a connection between the attemtped asssasination of a Democratic Congresswoman and the rhetoric of recent years, and quite a few of them jumped at the chance to exploit it as political fodder against conservative commentators, the Republican party in general and the Tea Party specifically. It only helped that opportunity that Giffords herself was challenged in her recent reelection by a Tea Party backed candidate who used shooting references in his campaign against her and that Giffords' district appeared in Sarah Palin's...."surveyor's mark" map from last summer.
It's an opportunity that never should have been taken.
This community has been treated to numerous posts warning of the dire consequences of rhetorical excess from the right of American politics and comparing several prominent conservatives to the likes of Julius Streicher and Joseph Goebbels who both served as leading "idea men" for the Nazi Reich and were considered responsible for the eventual deeds of the Reich.
That's a hell of a charge, and it bears some examination because if, as I opened with, words DO influence people and if words in our political discourse bear resemblance to those used by the most notorious propagandists of modern history, the consideration of whether or not it could happen here and whether or not certain actors in our politics are trying to make a version of it happen here has to be considered.
This is already a huge post, but I'd like to briefly explain why I think that oft flung charge is simply another partisan talking point that is attractive for confirmation bias purposes, but ultimately too simplistic. Julius Streicher may have been a publisher, but within short order of his joining the Nazi party, he was appointed Gauleiter of Nuremberg, the undisputed party head in his jurisdiction and "advisor" to the local government. Since the Nazi Party was organized with paramilitary forces, a Gauleiter had real authority and, more importantly, goons at his disposal with which he could unleash violence. Goebbels was deeply involved in the decision making that led to the Final Solution. So even if a cursory examination of the language used by Glenn Beck, for example, results in use of phrases and terms typical in Nazi propaganda, the men who used that propaganda took actions beyond publication that made them culpable for the atrocities of the Reich.
Another example we've been given repeatedly is that D.W. Griffith's A Birth of a Nation was instrumental in the founding of The Second Klan. I'll stipulate that historians widely cite the film as an inspiration for the new Klan and provided the romantic image of the original Klan used to recruit members. But honestly, that is too simple. Remember that America in 1915 was a country where white supremacism was not a fringe ideology -- it was mainstream enough that President Woodrow Wilson's explanation of the original Klan was featured in the film:

In the decades PRIOR to both the film and the reestablishment of the Klan, gangs of "witecappers" spread as secret societies among white farmers in rural Indiana and spread as a vigilante movement to enforce "proper" behavior. And when it spread to the South, it took on a decidedly racist tone attacking blacks and anyone supportive of blacks. So the Klan arose, not merely inspired by a film, but also into a society whose President romanticized Nathan Bedford Forrest and which already had a cell organized, vigilante movement that was spreading anti-immigrant and racist violence years before the Klan was founded again.
It seems obvious to me that mass violence is not simply "set off" by rhetoric, even by years of it. Even the Rwandan genocide which shocked the West with its sudden onset wasn't merely incited by the hate speech on the radio. Those broadcasts told Hutu listeners they were in immediate danger, were used to call up Hutu paramilitary groups sanctioned by the government, and gave specific names of Tutsis to be killed and where to find them. Further, the genocide played off of inter-ethnic hatreds stemming from decades of colonialism. Talk alone doesn't lead to mass violence in a vacuum.
Rush Limbaugh has been successful since the election of President Clinton. Ann Coulter published her first book in 1998. Glenn Beck has been preaching against progressives, declaring the President a socialist and misrepresenting the specifics of the health care bill for two solid years. And yet in spite of this, the most obviously heated period of our political struggles was in the summer of 2009 when 1000s of Tea Party Activists descended upon the health care town hall meetings and....shouted a lot. A lot of it wasn't factually correct. Quite a bit of what was documented was rude, even cruel to people disagreeing. You know what it wasn't? It wasn't a riot. Or a pogrom.
So if it isn't mass violence that we can pin on this kind of rhetoric and influence, surely we can blame it upon individual actors who are directly listening to it and believe it? I don't think so. Think about those 11 year old boys I described before the cut. Were they inspired by, maybe even got the idea to lie down in traffic from what they watched? Probably, yes. But a whole lot of other things were at play there as well. They were boys. And they were 11. By definition, that means they were pretty dumb and prone to taking idiotic risks. They were completely unsupervised at the time. Perhaps their parents were not especially good at teaching them prudent judgment.
The same set of complicated factors in decision making has to be applied to anyone who listens to and is potentially influenced by media that they consume. Another reason that the "You are responsible if people use your words as inspiration for violence" line of attack is unfair is that it ignores the vast vast majority of listeners who do not do so. When there are 10s of millions of prolife people in this country, but only a miniscule fraction of them have been violent, there is more than prolife rhetoric at work. Those events are shocking and they are searing, but the average clinic worker or patient at Planned Parenthood is infinitely more likely to be shouted at than shot. And that has to have something to do with how a micro fraction of listeners to polemics process that rather than an inherent danger in the polemic itself.
Now saying all of that, I think that the attempted assassination of Congresswoman Giffords and the deaths of others present at Tucson IS an excellent opportunity for all of us to take stock in the way we are discussing, or, rather, failing to discuss politics in this country.
This isn't because anyone on the right is responsible for what happened to Congresswoman Giffords, her staff, friends and constituents. They are not, and people on the left who have tried to rush into blaming them for it should apologize. The reasons for all of us to collectively reconsider our discourse are:
1) The way we are doing it today is making us stupid. Accusations. Epithets. Counter factual claims. Facts that aren't facts. They are flying across our partisan landscape with a speed and volume that only our modern disinformation age can manage. But far from "liberating" us, it has made many of us the gatekeepers of our own partisan bubbles where we refuse to let in information that does not conform to our existing biases.
I tried listening to "Air America" a few years back when Randi Rhodes was an anchor show. It was horrible -- I found myself embarrassed to be on the same side of political spectrum as she was, struggling to keep from yelling at my radio. I've watched a few of Keith Olbermann's patented "Special Commentaries" and found them satisfying in the sense I wasn't the one yelling...but I can't watch the show consistently or even sit through a whole episode.
This new media as a source of information is a lot like eating potato chips for lunch...it can fill you up and even seem satisfying, but it provides just about zero of what you need. Face it, if you get most of your information from partisan broadcasts and blogs, chances are that you are really fucking stupid.
2) We are only furthering the trend of failing to work together because we are all Americans despite of our differences, a principle that is core to the kind of Congresswoman Ms. Giffords is. I've followed her career since 2006 when she was profiled in a Jewish magazine, and I have a friend who covered her first campaign in 2006 and is a true admirer of hers. This lady is the real deal -- she's smart, she's patriotic, she's principled, she's an honest broker across party line and precisely the kind of public servant who will be disgusted when she sees how her tragedy has been used for crass partisan gain.
The fact is that there is serious work that our politicians are entrusted to do, but as we've willingly consumed greater and greater amounts of partisan vitriol, the bases of both parties insist on purity of ideology over accomplishment. Think about the Democratic base lashing out at Senator Lieberman for daring to support the Iraq War when the rest of his record was certainly reasonable from liberal perspectives. Think about Republican partisans demanding the head of Lindsey Graham for daring to not vote in lock step. The fact is that where the parties were once more ideologically diverse and cross party cooperation was essential to get anything done, today's parties are much more narrow and nomination requires the approval of ever more entrenched base voters who don't see the other side as opponents, they see them as enemies.
In 1983, such partisans as President Ronald Reagan and Speaker of the House Tip O'Neill came together and hammered out a plan to save Social Security. Look at this photo:

One cannot help but realize that the bases of both parties today would react with fury to two politicians being statesmen and working together, but that's what we need today.
Finally, and maybe most importantly -- We should look into ourselves and tone it down because the most touching and important reactions to what happened in Tucson should tell us that we are nation and that the people we oppose politically are our fellow citizens with lives, hopes, dreams and families, and that the arguments which energize us should not become the anger that divides us. Cut away the slop of "you are responsible!" and "how dare you say that!" and you get a truly bipartisan reaction of shock, sorrow and hope for the Congresswoman's recovery. I've never deferred to
reality_hammer in this forum before, but his excellent first words on the events of last Saturday should have been a model.
And we ARE shocked and we ARE sad, but Representative Giffords is not a football in a political slugfest -- she is a decent human being, a wonderful public servant, and she is not unique in that respect. Our common bonds should be rooted in our desires for what is best for our nation, our communities, our families and ourselves, regardless of our disagreements about how to achieve that.
So...if you are outraged and sorrowful about Tucson, but your first thoughts were how to spin the story to your partisan advantage, you are doing it wrong. If you're are outraged and sorrowful about Tucson but would go out tomorrow and plan an election campaign as nasty as the one that exploited the fact that Giffords' husband would not vote for her....leaving out that he's an ASTRONAUT with children from another marriage who live near mission control in Houston...well, if you'd do that all over again to her or anyone else, you are doing it wrong too.
So yes, this is a moment for us to consider our political rhetoric -- but it is a moment for us to all reflect upon whether or not we are contributing to the best in America or simply relishing giving in to currents that prevent us from working together.
And as a final, I promise, thought -- if reading this gives you hope and puts a smile on your face, then I think you are part way there.
So I was just about to cross one of the main roads, and I witnessed a group of boys -- about 11-12 years old or so -- taking turns running into the street, lying down and then getting up and running to the other side. They did this several times, even as cars were coming rumbling down the blind corner of the hill just to the mountain side of the neighborhood.
And I lit into them. Probably my first true moment of generational ranting and fueled by my own recent loss, I yelled at them for risking that, told them their parents would be crushed if they got hurt and what about a poor driver who'd have to live with hitting them if they kept up that nonsense? For good measure, I told them if they didn't leave right then and there, I'd get a cop and have them dragged home kicking and screaming. I'm not exactly a scary guy, but they left.
I found out later that there was either a popular TV show or movie that was out at the time that had people doing stupid stunts and that these kids were likely immitating it. Over the next years in the classroom, it was pretty evident that popular culture and discourse was pretty capable of working quite a lot of influence on people. Students of mine spent a disconcerting amount of time treating me to their renditions of Beavis and Butthead, and a generation of students who were familiar with the Ricki Lake Show and Jerry Springer betrayed signs of having become convinced that the person who shouts the loudest wins the argument. As a twenty-something college graduate, I was afflicted with the particular conceit that the media reflects rather than influences society, but my work teaching pushed the credulity of that.
I think it is obviously true that words and messages have impact. If they didn't American businesses would probably have better uses for the $125 billion (more or less) they spend on advertising. On a personal level, I am sure if words and images did not matter, I wouldn't find Progressive Insurance Company to be cute and perky despite my having no personal experience with the company beyond its advertising front:

Let me get a couple of points of bias aside before continuing:
First, I do think our political rhetoric has become poisoned in America. It is not that people were not fierce partisans in the past, and it is not that we have not had even WORSE political environments where hot words were actually matched with hot deeds (think of Bleeding Kansas and why that name actually applied as an example). However, in my lifetime, there has been a substantial upping of the ante in political rhetoric in the mainstream of commentary, activism and even political leaders that would have been pretty unthinkable except in the margins previously. Since my first year in college, Democrats have gone from being "soft on defense" and "tax and spend liberals" to "traitors" and "socialists". Republicans have gone from being "the party of the rich" to "fascists" who'd just as soon see the poor die.
I won't be so disengenuous to say that there isn't a stridency on the left of American politics. It is that stridency that prevented me, despite my strong opposition to the war in Iraq, from joining street protests and limited my activism to letter writing and door to door canvassing during the elections. It was because I did not want to stand next to this:

or this:
My arguments with the Bush administration were based upon his adherence to a Nixonian theory of Presidential power and his launching a war of choice against the wrong enemy -- not that he had seized all the levers of government in a dictatorship and launched a ruthless total war and genocide across an entire continent. Lacking a taste for hysteria and hyperbole, I worked a lot more quietly.
With that said, I do agree with people who claim the conservative wing of American politics has gone far and beyond in recent years. That's an impression and an opinion and there will be people who vigorously disagree with it -- and I'm fine with that. I stand by the observation because I simply have not seen an equivalent number of liberal media personalities with the same reach and audience as Limbaugh, Coulter, Beck and Malkin pursuing the rhetorical excess that typifies these people. Nor do I see an equivalent number of Democratic elected officials who imitate the voices of the most extreme commentators on the left. Further, there has been an even more extreme coarsening of the tone from hyperbolic claims (Obama is a Socialist!) and counterfactual assertions (Obamacare is going to kill my baby with Downs Syndrome!) to implications that we are near a point where "government tyranny" will require a violent response.
All of that said, I stand by my initial rant about the response to Congresswoman Giffords being shot...abundant use of the word "fuck" and all.
A great many on my side of the political aisle immediately saw a connection between the attemtped asssasination of a Democratic Congresswoman and the rhetoric of recent years, and quite a few of them jumped at the chance to exploit it as political fodder against conservative commentators, the Republican party in general and the Tea Party specifically. It only helped that opportunity that Giffords herself was challenged in her recent reelection by a Tea Party backed candidate who used shooting references in his campaign against her and that Giffords' district appeared in Sarah Palin's...."surveyor's mark" map from last summer.
It's an opportunity that never should have been taken.
This community has been treated to numerous posts warning of the dire consequences of rhetorical excess from the right of American politics and comparing several prominent conservatives to the likes of Julius Streicher and Joseph Goebbels who both served as leading "idea men" for the Nazi Reich and were considered responsible for the eventual deeds of the Reich.
That's a hell of a charge, and it bears some examination because if, as I opened with, words DO influence people and if words in our political discourse bear resemblance to those used by the most notorious propagandists of modern history, the consideration of whether or not it could happen here and whether or not certain actors in our politics are trying to make a version of it happen here has to be considered.
This is already a huge post, but I'd like to briefly explain why I think that oft flung charge is simply another partisan talking point that is attractive for confirmation bias purposes, but ultimately too simplistic. Julius Streicher may have been a publisher, but within short order of his joining the Nazi party, he was appointed Gauleiter of Nuremberg, the undisputed party head in his jurisdiction and "advisor" to the local government. Since the Nazi Party was organized with paramilitary forces, a Gauleiter had real authority and, more importantly, goons at his disposal with which he could unleash violence. Goebbels was deeply involved in the decision making that led to the Final Solution. So even if a cursory examination of the language used by Glenn Beck, for example, results in use of phrases and terms typical in Nazi propaganda, the men who used that propaganda took actions beyond publication that made them culpable for the atrocities of the Reich.
Another example we've been given repeatedly is that D.W. Griffith's A Birth of a Nation was instrumental in the founding of The Second Klan. I'll stipulate that historians widely cite the film as an inspiration for the new Klan and provided the romantic image of the original Klan used to recruit members. But honestly, that is too simple. Remember that America in 1915 was a country where white supremacism was not a fringe ideology -- it was mainstream enough that President Woodrow Wilson's explanation of the original Klan was featured in the film:

In the decades PRIOR to both the film and the reestablishment of the Klan, gangs of "witecappers" spread as secret societies among white farmers in rural Indiana and spread as a vigilante movement to enforce "proper" behavior. And when it spread to the South, it took on a decidedly racist tone attacking blacks and anyone supportive of blacks. So the Klan arose, not merely inspired by a film, but also into a society whose President romanticized Nathan Bedford Forrest and which already had a cell organized, vigilante movement that was spreading anti-immigrant and racist violence years before the Klan was founded again.
It seems obvious to me that mass violence is not simply "set off" by rhetoric, even by years of it. Even the Rwandan genocide which shocked the West with its sudden onset wasn't merely incited by the hate speech on the radio. Those broadcasts told Hutu listeners they were in immediate danger, were used to call up Hutu paramilitary groups sanctioned by the government, and gave specific names of Tutsis to be killed and where to find them. Further, the genocide played off of inter-ethnic hatreds stemming from decades of colonialism. Talk alone doesn't lead to mass violence in a vacuum.
Rush Limbaugh has been successful since the election of President Clinton. Ann Coulter published her first book in 1998. Glenn Beck has been preaching against progressives, declaring the President a socialist and misrepresenting the specifics of the health care bill for two solid years. And yet in spite of this, the most obviously heated period of our political struggles was in the summer of 2009 when 1000s of Tea Party Activists descended upon the health care town hall meetings and....shouted a lot. A lot of it wasn't factually correct. Quite a bit of what was documented was rude, even cruel to people disagreeing. You know what it wasn't? It wasn't a riot. Or a pogrom.
So if it isn't mass violence that we can pin on this kind of rhetoric and influence, surely we can blame it upon individual actors who are directly listening to it and believe it? I don't think so. Think about those 11 year old boys I described before the cut. Were they inspired by, maybe even got the idea to lie down in traffic from what they watched? Probably, yes. But a whole lot of other things were at play there as well. They were boys. And they were 11. By definition, that means they were pretty dumb and prone to taking idiotic risks. They were completely unsupervised at the time. Perhaps their parents were not especially good at teaching them prudent judgment.
The same set of complicated factors in decision making has to be applied to anyone who listens to and is potentially influenced by media that they consume. Another reason that the "You are responsible if people use your words as inspiration for violence" line of attack is unfair is that it ignores the vast vast majority of listeners who do not do so. When there are 10s of millions of prolife people in this country, but only a miniscule fraction of them have been violent, there is more than prolife rhetoric at work. Those events are shocking and they are searing, but the average clinic worker or patient at Planned Parenthood is infinitely more likely to be shouted at than shot. And that has to have something to do with how a micro fraction of listeners to polemics process that rather than an inherent danger in the polemic itself.
Now saying all of that, I think that the attempted assassination of Congresswoman Giffords and the deaths of others present at Tucson IS an excellent opportunity for all of us to take stock in the way we are discussing, or, rather, failing to discuss politics in this country.
This isn't because anyone on the right is responsible for what happened to Congresswoman Giffords, her staff, friends and constituents. They are not, and people on the left who have tried to rush into blaming them for it should apologize. The reasons for all of us to collectively reconsider our discourse are:
1) The way we are doing it today is making us stupid. Accusations. Epithets. Counter factual claims. Facts that aren't facts. They are flying across our partisan landscape with a speed and volume that only our modern disinformation age can manage. But far from "liberating" us, it has made many of us the gatekeepers of our own partisan bubbles where we refuse to let in information that does not conform to our existing biases.
I tried listening to "Air America" a few years back when Randi Rhodes was an anchor show. It was horrible -- I found myself embarrassed to be on the same side of political spectrum as she was, struggling to keep from yelling at my radio. I've watched a few of Keith Olbermann's patented "Special Commentaries" and found them satisfying in the sense I wasn't the one yelling...but I can't watch the show consistently or even sit through a whole episode.
This new media as a source of information is a lot like eating potato chips for lunch...it can fill you up and even seem satisfying, but it provides just about zero of what you need. Face it, if you get most of your information from partisan broadcasts and blogs, chances are that you are really fucking stupid.
2) We are only furthering the trend of failing to work together because we are all Americans despite of our differences, a principle that is core to the kind of Congresswoman Ms. Giffords is. I've followed her career since 2006 when she was profiled in a Jewish magazine, and I have a friend who covered her first campaign in 2006 and is a true admirer of hers. This lady is the real deal -- she's smart, she's patriotic, she's principled, she's an honest broker across party line and precisely the kind of public servant who will be disgusted when she sees how her tragedy has been used for crass partisan gain.
The fact is that there is serious work that our politicians are entrusted to do, but as we've willingly consumed greater and greater amounts of partisan vitriol, the bases of both parties insist on purity of ideology over accomplishment. Think about the Democratic base lashing out at Senator Lieberman for daring to support the Iraq War when the rest of his record was certainly reasonable from liberal perspectives. Think about Republican partisans demanding the head of Lindsey Graham for daring to not vote in lock step. The fact is that where the parties were once more ideologically diverse and cross party cooperation was essential to get anything done, today's parties are much more narrow and nomination requires the approval of ever more entrenched base voters who don't see the other side as opponents, they see them as enemies.
In 1983, such partisans as President Ronald Reagan and Speaker of the House Tip O'Neill came together and hammered out a plan to save Social Security. Look at this photo:

One cannot help but realize that the bases of both parties today would react with fury to two politicians being statesmen and working together, but that's what we need today.
Finally, and maybe most importantly -- We should look into ourselves and tone it down because the most touching and important reactions to what happened in Tucson should tell us that we are nation and that the people we oppose politically are our fellow citizens with lives, hopes, dreams and families, and that the arguments which energize us should not become the anger that divides us. Cut away the slop of "you are responsible!" and "how dare you say that!" and you get a truly bipartisan reaction of shock, sorrow and hope for the Congresswoman's recovery. I've never deferred to
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
And we ARE shocked and we ARE sad, but Representative Giffords is not a football in a political slugfest -- she is a decent human being, a wonderful public servant, and she is not unique in that respect. Our common bonds should be rooted in our desires for what is best for our nation, our communities, our families and ourselves, regardless of our disagreements about how to achieve that.
So...if you are outraged and sorrowful about Tucson, but your first thoughts were how to spin the story to your partisan advantage, you are doing it wrong. If you're are outraged and sorrowful about Tucson but would go out tomorrow and plan an election campaign as nasty as the one that exploited the fact that Giffords' husband would not vote for her....leaving out that he's an ASTRONAUT with children from another marriage who live near mission control in Houston...well, if you'd do that all over again to her or anyone else, you are doing it wrong too.
So yes, this is a moment for us to consider our political rhetoric -- but it is a moment for us to all reflect upon whether or not we are contributing to the best in America or simply relishing giving in to currents that prevent us from working together.
And as a final, I promise, thought -- if reading this gives you hope and puts a smile on your face, then I think you are part way there.
FCC doesn't really use it / must be using speech in a deliberate attempt to maim or kill
Date: 15/1/11 17:43 (UTC)- $10,000 for a sexual double-entendre on the Bob and Tom Show aired 1987 on WFBQ, WNDE.
- $20,000 - "Perry Stone show employs sexual humor." - KSJO, 1989
- $12,500 - "Morning show plays Monty Python song "Sit on My Face." - KGB, 1990
- $25,000 - "Discussion of fellatio" - KMEL, 1991
- $705,000 - "Numerous Howard Stern broadcasts, including discussion of the arrest for indecent exposure of actor Paul Reubens (aka Pee Wee Herman)." - KLSX, WXRK, WYSP, WJFK, 1991
- $10,000 - "Shock jocks Steve Dahl and Garry Meier discuss penis size." - WLUP(AM), 1991
- $33,750 - "Discussion of penis size" - KLOL(FM), 1991
- $23,750 - "Station plays rap song containing profanities and graphic sexual imagery." - WSUC, 1992
- $500,000 - "Howard Stern discusses size of actor Richard Gere's penis, among other sexual matters." - WXRK, WYSP, WJFK, 1992
- $12,500 - "Station plays song "I Want to be a Homosexual." - KNON, 1992
- $200,000 - "Discussion of masturbation." - WXRK, WYSP, WJFK, 1993
- $400,000 - "Howard Stern discusses pubic grooming, among other sexual matters." - Mel Karmazin/Infinity Broadcasting & Sagittarius, 1993
- $37,500 - "Howard Stern discusses soiled female underwear, among other sexual matters." - KFBI(FM), 1993
- $10,000 - "Howard Stern has father of porn star Jenna Jameson identify his daughter's vagina in a lineup of photographs" - WVGO, 1995
- $12,000 - "Several broadcasts, including sex-talk show and Howard Stern with Jenna Jameson's father." - WEZB, 1995
- $23,000 - "Various broadcasts with Bubba the Love Sponge including purported on-air enema." - WXTB, 1997
- $35,000 - "Sexual novelty songs, discussion of sexual enema with caller." - WQAM LLP/WQAM, 1998
- $21,000 - "Spanish-language sexual programming, including discussion of anal sex." - WLDI Inc./WCOM/P.R., 1999
- $21,000 - "Spanish-language sexual television programming, including a couple in a bubble bath." - Telemundo WKAQ TV, 2000
- $14,000 - "Shock jock "Mancow" Muller discusses sex acts, including "fisting," with female guests." - WKQX, 2000
- $21,000 - "Shock jocks Opie & Anthony air song describing incestuous pedophilia." - WNEW, 2000
- $22,400 - "Broadcast of sexual jokes." - WJFD, 2000
- $21,000 - "Shock jock "Mancow" Muller airs wide range of sex talk, including penis size." - WKQX, 2001
- $14,000 - "Morning show discusses proposed contest in which men would pull and lift objects with their penises." - KNDD, 2001
- $715,000 - "Bubba the Love Sponge describes sexual activity between cartoon characters, including George and Jane Jetson." - WPLA, 2001
- $27,500 - "Howard Stern discusses a number of sexual activities, including scatological humor." - WKRK, 2001
- $27,500 - "Hosts Deminski and Doyle discuss a number of degrading sexual activities." - WKRK, 2001
- $55,000 - "Washington's Elliot Segal engages in sexual talk with two female Bishop O'Connell high school students." - DC101, 2001
- $220,000 - "Dare and Murphy Show: porn star Ron Jeremy discusses self-fellation." - KQRC, KFH(AM), 2002
$357,000 - "Shock jocks Opie & Anthony broadcast couple claiming to have sex in New York's St. Patrick's Cathedral." - WNEW, 2002
$55,000 - "Hosts Arnie & Dawn describe a number of dangerous and degrading sexual activities." - KRXQ, 2002
$27,500 - ""Puppetry of the Penis" players display penis on live television." - Young Broadcasting/KRON TV, 2002
$247,500 - "Washington's Elliot Segal uses slang term for cunnilingus." - Clear Channel/DC101, 2003
$1,183,000 - ""Married By America" shows digitally obscured nudity." - NewsCorp/Fox Broadcasting Television
$495,000 - "Howard Stern discusses "finger banging," among other sexual matters." - WBGG, 2003
$55,000 - "Host Scott Farrell tells caller he will "stuff his package" into caller's wife's mouth." - WQAM, 2003
$27,500 - "Washington's WIHT morning show broadcasts host claiming to use penis pump." - WITH, 2003
$550,000 - "Janet Jackson bares breast during Super Bowl halftime show." - Viacom/CBS television stations, 2004
Re: FCC doesn't really use it / must be using speech in a deliberate attempt to maim or kill
Date: 16/1/11 00:24 (UTC)Any thoughts on the sentiment that opening up pandora's box a little more so that we can punish political speech which only may or may not be threatening, might be, as malsadas said, the path back to the alien and sedition acts?
I mean, irony, deadpan humor, gallows humor are all legitimately understood forms of humor and communication oftentimes in pursuit of a point, often enough a political one. Are you prepared to shut that down as well?
Re: FCC doesn't really use it / must be using speech in a deliberate attempt to maim or kill
Date: 16/1/11 01:44 (UTC)If I ran the FCC, I wouldn't have imposed any of the above fines. But if I ran the FCC, I think I might fine people who joke about or insinuate that they want their political adversaries dead.
The box is open. I'm in favor of being smarter about what is actually obscene, indecent, or profane.
Re: FCC doesn't really use it / must be using speech in a deliberate attempt to maim or kill
Date: 16/1/11 04:29 (UTC)There are simply too many ways to impart different meanings to the same words for it to be applied justly. It'll end up being enforced with inconsistency if lucky, or with draconian brutality, without regard for any distinction for subtlety of context. Then there's the 'other' line this creates, the buffer of speech which skirts the line which while legal by your definition, isn't crossed for fear of getting too close to it.
Would you use it to go after the average Joe, or only high-profile personalities or both? If the former, how does this not violate equal protection? If freedom of speech is one of the most agreed upon fundamental rights, is it suddenly less fundamental by circumstance? All of these questions you will have to answer, and it had better be one based on a foundation as solid as granite so as not to appear arbitrary. But as mentioned, good luck with that.
The best way to handle questionable use of free speech is to use more of your own.
Re: FCC doesn't really use it / must be using speech in a deliberate attempt to maim or kill
Date: 16/1/11 05:53 (UTC)As far as people are concerned, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Brandenburg v. Ohio that speech that aims to and is likely to incite immediate lawless action is not protected by the first amendment. So the FCC cannot fine a person for wishing death on a political adversary or even calling on other people to kill a political adversary unless it is demonstrated in court that the speech aimed to and was likely to incite others to attempt to kill that political adversary.
But the House of Representatives and the Senate can impeach Representatives and Senators who wish death on and/or call others to kill political adversaries.
And the FCC can fine broadcast TV and radio networks for airing speech that wishes death on and/or calls others to kill political adversaries, if such speech violates the FCC restrictions of indecency, obscenity, or profanity and airs on broadcast TV or radio between 6 A.M. and 10 P.M., when there is a reasonable risk that children may be watching. (http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/freespeech.html)
So, the only questions now are does wishing death on and/or calling others to kill political adversaries qualify as indecent, obscene, or profane?
I say, yeah, why not?
And, has such speech aired on broadcast TV or radio between 6 A.M. and 10 P.M.?
I don't know. But here's a list of violations that would bring about fines if I were running the FCC and if the speech aired on broadcast TV or radio between 6 A.M. and 10 P.M.:
-- "Rush Limbaugh is beginning to look more and more like Mr. Big, and at some point somebody's going to jam a CO2 pellet into his head and he's going to explode like a giant blimp. That day may come. Not yet, but we'll be there to watch." -- Chris Matthews on MSNBC's "Morning Meeting," Oct. 13, 2009.
-- "So, Michele, slit your wrist! Go ahead! I mean, you know, why not? I mean, if you want to -- or, you know, do us all a better thing. Move that knife up about 2 feet. I mean, start right at the collarbone." -- Montel Williams, talking about Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn., on Air America's "Montel Across America," Sept. 2, 2009.
-- "He is an enemy of the country, in my opinion, Dick Cheney is, he is an enemy of the country. ... You know, Lord, take him to the Promised Land, will you? See, I don't even wish the guy goes to hell, I just want to get him the hell out of here." -- Ed Schultz, "The Ed Schultz Show," May 11, 2009.
-- "I'm waiting for the day when I pick it up, pick up a newspaper or click on the Internet and find out he's choked to death on his own throat fat or a great big wad of saliva or something, you know, whatever. Go away, Rush, you make me sick!" -- Radio host Mike Malloy on the Jan. 4, 2010, "Mike Malloy Show."
-- "I'm just saying if he (Dick Cheney) did die, other people, more people would live. That's a fact." -- Bill Maher, on his HBO show "Real Time," March 2, 2007.
-- After then-Sen. Jesse Helms, R-N.C., said that the federal government was spending too much money on AIDS, National Public Radio's Nina Totenberg, on the July 8, 1995, edition of "Inside Washington,"
said, "I think he ought to be worried about what's going on in the Good Lord's mind because if there is retributive justice, he'll get AIDS from a transfusion, or one of his grandchildren will get it."
-- On the Nov. 4, 1994 edition of PBS's "To the Contrary," then-USA Today columnist and Pacifica Radio talk show host Julianne Malveaux said of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas: "I hope his wife feeds him lots of eggs and butter and he dies early like many black men do, of heart disease. ... He is an absolutely reprehensible person."
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/6215940/media_research_center_compiles_death.html?cat=62
Re: FCC doesn't really use it / must be using speech in a deliberate attempt to maim or kill
Date: 16/1/11 06:56 (UTC)And as noted earlier, all I see in what you're saying is that there's an established tool and that you don't like how it's currently being applied and that you would apply it differently. Great, but your underlying principle is no deeper than the justification the 'old boss' used: Personal estimation of speech based on a nebulous, poorly defined set of criteria. Yours seems no more different fundamentally than his, unless your estimation of 'better' is somehow measured in universal absolutes.
The whole, "well as long as we're doing it, let's do it my way/the 'right' way" schtick allows us to forget about ever asking if the original decision to cross the line was ever a good one. Who can think of these things now that we have the Ring of Powe... I mean arbitrary authority.
And several of the quotes you took were out of context and tone, where even if one doesn't like or agree with the style of its delivery, the subtext the or the underlying point being made is still an obviously non-threatening one, but to you it all gets swept up together as all just as bad.
Like I said, if you don't like the tone of speech, use more of your own to counter it.
And lastly, of all the quotes you cited, what was the result of all of that? Murder in the street? Mayhem? Riots? If you're saying civil society depends on your ability to quash these controversial statements, it seems that perhaps a better estimation of the actual threat posed by this speech is in order before we allow you that extra latitude you'd like us to hand over. The hurdle for giving up ground on moving the line on free speech (or most freedoms in general) is by necessity a tall request, it requires more substantial reason than you've offered.
Re: FCC doesn't really use it / must be using speech in a deliberate attempt to maim or kill
Date: 16/1/11 08:48 (UTC)Explain.
"If you're saying civil society depends on your ability to quash these controversial statements, it seems that perhaps a better estimation of the actual threat posed by this speech is in order before we allow you that extra latitude"
Okay.
August 1997 - Mary Rose Wilcox (a member of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors in Arizona) survived an assassination attempt by a conservative. At the trial, the shooter said, "I shot her because the radio said I should take her out."
July 27, 2008 - Jim Adkisson shoots and kills two people at a liberal church in Knoxville TN, wounding two others. Adkisson says he'd read books about how the state of the U.S. was the liberals' fault. He wishes he could've killed liberal leaders, but he didn't have an opportunity. So he decided to target the liberal church because it was the closest, easiest target in the area.
April 4, 2009 - Neo-nazi Richard Poplawski shoots and kills three police officers responding to a 911 call to his home in Pittsburgh. Poplawski's friends say that Poplawski told them that he heard Obama was coming for his guns and he's not going to let them take his guns away from him.
April 25, 2009 - Joshua Cartwright, a member of the FL National Guard, shoots and kills two Okaloosa County sheriff's deputies. His wife reports that Cartwright told her before the incident that he thought that the government was coming for his guns and he wasn't going to allow the government to take his guns.
May 31, 2009 - Scott P. Roeder shoots and kills George Tiller, an abortion doctor, in the Reformation Lutheran Church in Wichita KS. On a dozen different occasions on a dozen different shows, over the course of years, O'Reilly devoted entire segments, made up exaggerated claims about, and generally railed against and demonized "Tiller The Baby Killer."
June 10, 2009 - James von Brunn, neo-Nazi and convicted felon, opens fire on the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington D.C. and kills a security guard.
July 13, 2009 - Gilbert Ortez Jr. kills a police deputy in Chamber County TX with an assault rifle. Ortez had expressed fear of the government taking his guns.
Feb. 18, 2010 - Joseph Stack of Austin TX flies a single-engine plane into an office building containing 200 IRS employees, killing one, wounding 13. Stack had expressed strong anti-government views prior to the incident.
May 20, 2010 - Jerry Kane Jr. and son Joseph Kane shoot two Arkansas police officers with AK-47s during a routine traffic stop on I-40 in West Memphis AR. Kane had expressed anti-government views and fear that government was coming for his guns.
July 18 2010 - Byron Williams engages in a shootout with the CA Highway Patrol in which more than 60 rounds are fired. Williams was on his way to the Tides Foundation, because he heard from Glenn Beck that the Tides Foundation was conspiring to control the government.
January 8, 2011 - Loughner shoots Giffords, kills 6, wounds 13. Giffords is quoted as saying, "The way that [Palin] has it depicted, she has the crosshairs of a gunsight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realize, there are consequences to that." Giffords' opponent, Jesse Kelly, ran the following ad, "Get on target for victory in November. Help remove Gabriel Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M-16 with Jesse Kelly." At a town hall meeting that Gabriel Giffords conducted while a U.S. Representative, a loaded gun was dropped on the floor. In another incident a brick was thrown through her window. In another incident, her campaign headquarters was threatened.
Re: FCC doesn't really use it / must be using speech in a deliberate attempt to maim or kill
Date: 16/1/11 18:41 (UTC)Going through the whole list isn't going to be a productive use of time. Let's get one thing straight right off the bat. I am not a Beck fan. He's far too into making loose-knit conspiracy type arguments for my liking but I have family members who do watch him and so get enough exposure to what the man says to know his style. He is a fan of hyperbolic humor, and his tone in speech makes it clear that is being so. He also is a constant advocate against violence.
"July 18 2010 - Byron Williams engages in a shootout with the CA Highway Patrol in which more than 60 rounds are fired. Williams was on his way to the Tides Foundation, because he heard from Glenn Beck that the Tides Foundation was conspiring to control the government."
The more citations you provide, the further off the reservation you're wandering. Now just uttering conspiracy theories on television should be unprotected speech if you say it on the air?
Making a case for your argument involves establishing material connections. Material connections persuade. Emotional pleas only convert the already-converted. I am not among the already-converted to your cause. Talk to me as if you were presenting your case in court where you are the state intent on showing and proving guilt. Would anecdotes, no matter how many of them you mined from the media research center, prove to a jury your case that there was a direct cause and effect between word and deed? What of the millions who heard it and either ignored it or took much of it in a sane context, if as in the case I noted, context made a difference? The relationship you seek to establish is not so great if one simply goes beyond anecdotal 'data', the value of which is minuscule enough that you could multiply the number of quotes by 100 and it still does not add weight to your case. You take much for granted.
Please, take a step back, away from the edge and remember that violent incidents, while having great emotional power, are generally poor yardsticks for gauging what they mean in larger context. We are not in the midst of street riots, race wars and pogroms and millions of die hard conservatives and liberals are able to go about each day listening to their preferred rhetoric and yet are somehow able to remain unmoved to violent impulses. Most of it is dumb and sucks, but to let the fear of it drive you to eradicate it, even from only broadcasters, is only to sharpen the blade which will eventually cut down your own speech, because the less defined the line is (and you've blurred it quite a bit with this selection of citations set as examples), only the most banal and feckless speech will remain 'safe' for the public to hear.
Re: FCC doesn't really use it / must be using speech in a deliberate attempt to maim or kill
Date: 16/1/11 19:45 (UTC)To clarify, the only quotes that I got from the media research center are the 7 quotes attributed to people from the left. The other quotes came from various sources. The list of violent incidents aren't necessarily quotes and aren't coming from one particular source. A more complete list of relevant events of the past two and a half years in the gun violence debate can be found here: http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline
The purpose of listed out the violence incidents is not to draw causal connections between rhetoric and the incidents, but to establish that a phenomenon in the U.S. exists whereby people shoot people because they are political adversaries and/or because they are representatives of government. It is because this phenomenon really does exist in the present-day United States that when people on broadcat TV and radio joke about or specifically advocate shooting people because they are political adversaries and/or representatives of government, it is specifically a big deal. How we specifically deal with this big deal is up for debate.
to let the fear of it drive you to eradicate it, even from only broadcasters, is only to sharpen the blade which will eventually cut down your own speech
My opinion isn't based on my fearing something; it's based on what I think is reasonable. And, again, I'm talking about a very specific thing: I don't think people should joke about killing their political adversaries and government officials on broadcast TV and radio. And thus, I rejoice in the fact that I "sharpen the blade which will eventually cut down [my] own speech" concerning killing my political adversaries and government officials as transmitted via broadcast TV and radio.
Re: FCC doesn't really use it / must be using speech in a deliberate attempt to maim or kill
Date: 16/1/11 20:08 (UTC)If the list you're offering is like the list you're providing here, then I wager what the list considers 'relevant' is putting two pieces of carefully chosen information next to one another and declaring association via proximity in the article (*clicks link and examines timeline* -yes, that's about right) as correlation, then I feel secure in saying that this is a mightily low standard to hold forth as credible evidence.
"...concerning killing my political adversaries and government officials as transmitted via broadcast TV and radio."
Except, it won't be limited to that. It never is, even as you've demonstrated here, just talking about what a person believes to be possible upcoming crises (over possible future gun restrictions or conspiracy theories) are supposedly examples of things to which these restrictions are being offered as remedies for. The more examples you've given, the wider the net you're casting.
Re: FCC doesn't really use it / must be using speech in a deliberate attempt to maim or kill
Date: 16/1/11 20:13 (UTC)Re: FCC doesn't really use it / must be using speech in a deliberate attempt to maim or kill
Date: 16/1/11 05:53 (UTC)Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus -- living fossils -- so we will never forget what these people stood for."
Ann Coulter: "We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens' creme brulee. ... That's just a joke, for you in the media."
Ann Coulter: "Some liberals have become even too crazy for Texas to execute, which is a damn shame. They're always saying -- we're oppressed, we're oppressed so let's do it. Let's oppress them."
LINDA VESTER (host): You say you'd rather not talk to liberals at all?
COULTER: I think a baseball bat is the most effective way these days.
Bill O'Reilly: Hey, you know, if you want to ban military recruiting, fine, but I'm not going to give you another nickel of federal money. You know, if I'm the president of the United States, I walk right into Union Square, I set up my little presidential podium, and I say, "Listen, citizens of San Francisco, if you vote against military recruiting, you're not going to get another nickel in federal funds. Fine. You want to be your own country? Go right ahead." And if Al Qaeda comes in here and blows you up, we're not going to do anything about it. We're going to say, look, every other place in America is off limits to you, except San Francisco. You want to blow up the Coit Tower? Go ahead.
Ann Coulter: "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building."
Ann Coulter: "Liberals hate America, they hate flag-wavers, they hate abortion opponents, they hate all religions except Islam, post 9/11. Even Islamic terrorists don't hate America like liberals do. They don't have the energy. If they had that much energy, they'd have indoor plumbing by now."
Rep. Peter King: And Joe Wilson has no right to complain. And I think people like Tim Russert and the others, who gave this guy such a free ride and all the media, they're the ones to be shot, not Karl Rove.
Bill O'Reilly: Where does George Soros have all his money? Do you know? Do you know where George Soros, the big left-wing loon who's financing all these smear [web]sites, do you know where his money is? Curaçao. Curaçao. They ought to hang this Soros guy.
Michael Reagan: "Howard Dean should be arrested and hung for treason or put in a hole until the end of the Iraq war!"
Ann Coulter: Why hasn't the former spokesman for the Taliban matriculating at Yale been beaten even more senseless than he already is? According to Hollywood, this nation is a cauldron of ethnic hatreds positively brimming with violent skinheads. Where are the skinheads when you need them? What does a girl have to do to get an angry, club- and torch-wielding mob on its feet?
Ann Coulter: Those few abortionists were shot, or, depending on your point of view, had a procedure with a rifle performed on them. I'm not justifying it, but I do understand how it happened.... The number of deaths attributed to Roe v. Wade about 40 million aborted babies and seven abortion clinic workers; 40 million to seven is also a pretty good measure of how the political debate is going.
Kathleen Parker: Miller is not alone, though some are more sanguine when it comes to evaluating the roster of contenders. Here's a note I got recently from a friend and former Delta Force member, who has been observing American politics from the trenches: "These bastards like Clark and Kerry and that incipient ass, Dean, and Gephardt and Kucinich and that absolute mental midget Sharpton, race baiter, should all be lined up and shot."
Glenn Beck: "Would you kill someone for that?...I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore...I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it,...No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out. Is this wrong?"