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I understand many believe there's a new cultural shift sweeping across the US (and UK, by extension), where these two societies are finally now facing their past in an honest way, ready to acknowledge slavery, racism, and the other ills related to social marginalization of entire segments of society, in an attempt to heal and cleanse themselves, and move on after this catharsis.
I'm sorry to rain on this party, but I'd say it's a bit too late for the US to confront its past. It should have been done so in the 20 years after the Civil War, or during the 60s when segregation was repealed.
Problem is, there are just too many Americans at this point who believe there is no racism and that blacks, Latinos, Muslims, and Indians are mostly dumb, lazy, violent, or immoral, with some exceptions that they call the "good ones". That is, they believe that their racism is justified by their stereotypes of the people they denigrate. They've elected an asshole for president whose entire worldview revolves around these notions - while he didn't win the popular vote, it was pretty close anyway, which indicates that his worldview is not exactly fringe. That, in 21st century America. He may or may not be defeated in the upcoming election - but the problem won't go away with him.
So, what exactly about the past needs to be confronted? It has already been proven and established - but so what? Certainly that is Trump's view of the world, Kanye West is one of the "good ones" but the rest are, well... You get the idea. And it's not just a few rotten apples who share this worldview, and whose political decisions are entirely educated by it.
The thing is, there are plenty people who believe the whole racial emancipation process has been done the wrong way. They're convinced the US has done more than enough already, having faced its history long ago, and lavishly compensated the victims thereof. They go even further and assert that black privilege has now grown to ludicrous levels: preferential college admissions and scholarships, preferential hiring by most corporations, and set-aside government contracts for black-owned businesses. Affirmative action gone wild, so to speak. Not even including the extensive government support for what they call the "grievance industry", through awareness and training sessions. And what they perceive as a systematic encouragement of the "outrage industry" being done both through the mass media and social networks. They're convinced that a whole segment of society has now grown accustomed to being entitled to benefits and attitudes they haven't earned, or deserved, but which they now take for granted and demand to keep receiving, based on a past long gone.
Now, myself living in South Africa, a country that knows a thing or two about racial revolution, I'm fully aware that every push for change has its detractors, especially those potentially affected by said change - every revolution inevitably meets with a reactionary push-back. Question is, where's the balance, where's the peace? And, should it even be sought in the first place? Shouldn't everything be first dismantled and destroyed before being built anew, instead? Where's the Nelson Mandela who'd know how to prevent this society from consuming itself? And, is it even possible to heal this society at this point? Would it be able to heal at all, if the more extreme course of action is taken?
Something tells me it isn't, and won't. The divisions have grown only deeper. A tipping point may or may not have been reached, but even if it still hasn't been, the direction these processes are taking, and the rate at which they've been going, give me no reason to believe the trend could be reversed. Each side has dug deeper into its trenches, demonizing the other one to a point where the "enemy" is no longer considered human. Bipartisanship is all but dead. There are two Americas fighting a Cold Civil War with each other along many division lines, including economic, social, cultural, and racial. I'd say America has had plenty of chance to look in the mirror, and heal itself. It has failed. Now it's doomed to follow the fate of every other empire in the history of this planet. Namely, go down in ruins under the weight of its own incurable internal illnesses. And I shudder to think what would emerge from the ashes. Sorry. I hope I'm wrong. I hope you somehow convince me that I am. But I'm not holding my breath about it.
I'm sorry to rain on this party, but I'd say it's a bit too late for the US to confront its past. It should have been done so in the 20 years after the Civil War, or during the 60s when segregation was repealed.
Problem is, there are just too many Americans at this point who believe there is no racism and that blacks, Latinos, Muslims, and Indians are mostly dumb, lazy, violent, or immoral, with some exceptions that they call the "good ones". That is, they believe that their racism is justified by their stereotypes of the people they denigrate. They've elected an asshole for president whose entire worldview revolves around these notions - while he didn't win the popular vote, it was pretty close anyway, which indicates that his worldview is not exactly fringe. That, in 21st century America. He may or may not be defeated in the upcoming election - but the problem won't go away with him.
So, what exactly about the past needs to be confronted? It has already been proven and established - but so what? Certainly that is Trump's view of the world, Kanye West is one of the "good ones" but the rest are, well... You get the idea. And it's not just a few rotten apples who share this worldview, and whose political decisions are entirely educated by it.
The thing is, there are plenty people who believe the whole racial emancipation process has been done the wrong way. They're convinced the US has done more than enough already, having faced its history long ago, and lavishly compensated the victims thereof. They go even further and assert that black privilege has now grown to ludicrous levels: preferential college admissions and scholarships, preferential hiring by most corporations, and set-aside government contracts for black-owned businesses. Affirmative action gone wild, so to speak. Not even including the extensive government support for what they call the "grievance industry", through awareness and training sessions. And what they perceive as a systematic encouragement of the "outrage industry" being done both through the mass media and social networks. They're convinced that a whole segment of society has now grown accustomed to being entitled to benefits and attitudes they haven't earned, or deserved, but which they now take for granted and demand to keep receiving, based on a past long gone.
Now, myself living in South Africa, a country that knows a thing or two about racial revolution, I'm fully aware that every push for change has its detractors, especially those potentially affected by said change - every revolution inevitably meets with a reactionary push-back. Question is, where's the balance, where's the peace? And, should it even be sought in the first place? Shouldn't everything be first dismantled and destroyed before being built anew, instead? Where's the Nelson Mandela who'd know how to prevent this society from consuming itself? And, is it even possible to heal this society at this point? Would it be able to heal at all, if the more extreme course of action is taken?
Something tells me it isn't, and won't. The divisions have grown only deeper. A tipping point may or may not have been reached, but even if it still hasn't been, the direction these processes are taking, and the rate at which they've been going, give me no reason to believe the trend could be reversed. Each side has dug deeper into its trenches, demonizing the other one to a point where the "enemy" is no longer considered human. Bipartisanship is all but dead. There are two Americas fighting a Cold Civil War with each other along many division lines, including economic, social, cultural, and racial. I'd say America has had plenty of chance to look in the mirror, and heal itself. It has failed. Now it's doomed to follow the fate of every other empire in the history of this planet. Namely, go down in ruins under the weight of its own incurable internal illnesses. And I shudder to think what would emerge from the ashes. Sorry. I hope I'm wrong. I hope you somehow convince me that I am. But I'm not holding my breath about it.
(no subject)
Date: 19/6/20 07:38 (UTC)I think this is really the key point. It's easy to be pessimistic right now when we've got a lot of people pulling the country apart, including the guy in the White House. Some of this comes from the left, but mostly the radical left that still hasn't really captured the democratic party. Just look at their candidate, he's one of those guys who represents the time when Democrats were thought of as Republican-lite. The GOP on the other hand has fully embraced someone who is unfit for the office and Mitt Romney, the former establishment candidate, has been breaking with the party on major issues.
I think the country can be healed, it's been through worse before. What I think it'll take is a couple of things. The end of identity politics from the left and a huge loss by the GOP this November. Mr. Trump is polling worse than I've ever seen a sitting president do, he's got Mondale numbers. If these hold up, I don't see the GOP holding either house or the presidency. They have 20 senators running for reelection and three retiring while the democrats have 11 running for reelection and one retiring. The numbers are heavily in favor of the democrat's favor. Not only does the GOP deserve this, I think it'll actually do them and the country some good long term.
Of course the problem of social stratification, as fridi pointed out, will still be there. However this is something that most of the world is still working out. Bringing it to the surface is the first step and the US has done this in ways I haven't seen done in China or Russia (although I admit I'm not as familiar with Russia as the other two, so maybe I missed something).
(no subject)
Date: 19/6/20 13:34 (UTC)I am respectfully, politely inquiring what you mean by this.
I am on the left, and I have issues with "kids these days" and certain facets of what I myself would describe as identity politics (I am a cranky old geezer), however I've also seen/heard "identity politics" used as a dog whistle to suggest LGBT people have some sort of privilege and we should go back to being second-class citizens. Notice that I'm not saying this is what you mean, I'm not putting words in your mouth, and I'll reiterate my first point that even I look at some stuff happening on the left like "huh?"
Mainly I'm asking because if you have thoughts / suggestions on how our side can help defeat Agent Orange, I'm listening 😁
(no subject)
Date: 19/6/20 14:56 (UTC)I do see a problem when someone's identity takes precedence over everything else. For example, I see the core problem of police brutality. Obviously black people suffer this at a higher rate and there is a lot of history behind this, but that isn't the end of the story. White men make up about half of the people killed by police, black men about one quarter. While BLM has done a great job of mobilizing people against police brutality and unaccountability, it has completely, by design, sidelined the group that is numerically impacted the most. When you really look at the subset of those who are impacted, poorer white communities, these are the ones most sidelined because they don't show up in the stack rank of oppressed as it's currently understood. This is an unnecessary division that makes enemies out of groups that have common interests. I'm not saying BLM should stop what they're doing or even that there shouldn't be a movement based on the black experience, but that the very real issue of police killing too many black people is a sub issue of the police killing too many people, not the other way around.
As far as defeating Trump, the Democrats have actually picked a candidate that most people like and hopefully he'll show up in places like Wisconsin and Michigan before the last week of the campaign. If this happens, I expect it should be easy... but then I expected Trump to lose last time, so what do I know.
(no subject)
Date: 19/6/20 15:07 (UTC)You raise an interesting point; I mentioned in a comment on this comm before that I'm basically a redneck and, apart from being queer, pretty much the kind of person the Republican party has been trying to court to support Trump. And I see a lot of my fellow rednecks vote against their best self-interests because of divisiveness and the playing down of the problems poor whites have. Black people definitely suffer at a higher rate and there is history behind this as you pointed out, but I think the left's current rhetoric that if you're white you have no problems (and all the elitism I see from liberals directed at people in flyover states, jokes about how we're all inbred, etc) is alienating a lot of people who could be mobilized in the fight against Trump. I support Black Lives Matter but I feel that the police system in the US is corrupt as a whole.
I sure hope defeating Trump is easy, but I didn't expect him to win 2016 either. Sigh.
(no subject)
Date: 19/6/20 16:40 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 19/6/20 17:04 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 19/6/20 17:08 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 19/6/20 17:22 (UTC)This. I remember seeing Mrs. Clinton going to a small town in West Virginia and bragging about how her policies would shut down the local coal mines. She thought that promising green revolution jobs would make up for this. I'm not sure if she ever figured out that one of the biggest concerns of the people she was talking to is that the coal mine would shut down and eliminate most of the jobs in the area. And while her audience might have heard something about green revolution jobs on TV, they probably didn't know anyone who ever had one... as opposed to the people they knew who lost their jobs when coal mines shut down.
I'm still not convinced these folks are voting against their interests by supporting the GOP yet the Democrats seem to take this as a given.
(no subject)
Date: 19/6/20 17:26 (UTC)