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talkpoliticsA gunman opened fire at a gay bar in Orlando, Florida late last night. As of writing this, there are reports of 50 dead so far with many more injured. The shooter has been identified as Omar Mateen, and reports as of right now suggest he may have been on some FBI terror watchlists and may have declared an allegiance or sympathies to ISIS, which would make this the most deadly terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11.
Consider this a consolidated open thread.
Consider this a consolidated open thread.
(no subject)
Date: 13/6/16 21:24 (UTC)We cannot, because as your own lists shows, the last time something was done was over twenty years ago. Since then, nothing meaningful has been done because any potential action in that direction is a political lightning rod. Democrats who try are resisted by Republicans and massively monied interests. Republicans who try are primaried out of their own races.
So, make accusations of "partisan confirmation bias" all you like. Until you can provide actual proof of your positive assertion, my point stands.
(no subject)
Date: 13/6/16 21:41 (UTC)these killings have continued to happen, with greater frequency and larger average body counts
Really? The data shows otherwise (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/03/weve-had-a-massive-decline-in-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/). Or are you going to say that this, too, is taken from 20 years ago?
You see what I mean by confirmation bias? You just make a blanket assertion: "nothing is being done". End of conversation. Is that it?
Fine then. Nothing is being done. Nothing at all. You're right. Gun violence has been rising. War is peace. Black is white. Whatever. Next.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/16 12:32 (UTC)What this implies is that there is no simple solution: it's not just guns, but we can't just arrest someone for being Muslim; even if they're saying "radical" things, we can't arrest someone before a crime is committed.
However, there's always opportunity cost. Make it harder to carry these attacks out, and some people will just not bother. In almost all of these events, the guns were bought legally. We restricted fully automatic weapons, and we do not see them used often (if at all) in these kinds of killings. So the argument that "criminals will just ignore the law" doesn't seem to be a valid one. Certain common-sense restrictions beyond what we already have would further increase the opportunity cost and inconvenience of carrying out this kind of attack. It would not stop them all, but I believe we would see a decrease. To stop them entirely, we need to address the dens of hate which rile these unstable people up, point them at society, and set them loose (all while denying any responsibility and claiming "freedom of speech.") I don't know, exactly, how to address that without shredding those freedoms - most solutions involve changing culture over a longer period of time, and that doesn't satisfy the knee-jerk instinct to do something, anything, in the wake of tragedy, instead of taking time to look at the actual problems and maybe say: "there's nothing we can do that will bear fruit today. This is a generational problem - but we can at least get started on it."
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/16 12:45 (UTC)Amazing goalpostshift-fu.
That said, you're right about one thing. The issue is not simple. If it were, it wouldn't be an issue at this point.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/16 13:09 (UTC)Allow me to restate my thesis.
- Mass killings have increased in frequency.
- We have failed to address that problem.
You have yet to answer either of those points.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/16 13:13 (UTC)Saying that nothing is being done is a hyperbole that's meant to mislead. That has been my entire point right from the get-go. Everything beyond that has been some finger-scratching on a couple of keyboards.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/16 13:30 (UTC)Shrug.
(no subject)
Date: 14/6/16 13:32 (UTC)