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Yes, I know that large chunks of the Bible are based on Jewish National Myth and 'make believe'.
But so are lots of English and American 'history'. It doesn't have to be absolutely true to be inspiring, uplifting or instructive to contemplate.
Dawkins claims that teaching the Christian faith, or any other religious faith to children is a form of child abuse. Me, I am not so sure. Children can be told the story of Noah's ark, but when they get to be old enough to ask serious questions, we can tell them the facts as we know them, that it never really happened.
This would give them a grounding in the culture that they were raised in, and also help them to think critically about their world in other areas - like politics maybe. "The value of fairy tales is not what they tell us about dragons, but they tell us how dragons can be beaten", to paraphrase Chesterton. The Christian faith gave us more than the Crusades and the Inquisition - ask for details ;)
But so are lots of English and American 'history'. It doesn't have to be absolutely true to be inspiring, uplifting or instructive to contemplate.
Dawkins claims that teaching the Christian faith, or any other religious faith to children is a form of child abuse. Me, I am not so sure. Children can be told the story of Noah's ark, but when they get to be old enough to ask serious questions, we can tell them the facts as we know them, that it never really happened.
This would give them a grounding in the culture that they were raised in, and also help them to think critically about their world in other areas - like politics maybe. "The value of fairy tales is not what they tell us about dragons, but they tell us how dragons can be beaten", to paraphrase Chesterton. The Christian faith gave us more than the Crusades and the Inquisition - ask for details ;)
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Date: 24/7/11 11:27 (UTC)Most Christians are going to disagree with you on the 'Noah's Ark didn't happen' part for instance.
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Date: 24/7/11 12:02 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 24/7/11 11:30 (UTC)The Christian faith gave us a lot, yes. It both gave us a lot and took a lot, but that's past. The question is, what do we do from here.
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Date: 24/7/11 11:35 (UTC)There was even a "transition" period when both old men used to exist in parallel realities, and for a time the kids were happy to receive presents twice - both on Christmas and New Year.
Now we have only one of them.
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Date: 24/7/11 11:34 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 24/7/11 11:48 (UTC)I accpet that the State should be separate from the Church, but going to eradicate religion ? I don't think so...
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Date: 24/7/11 11:41 (UTC)But let's leave most of religious education to families and clerics.
A fully secular and pluralistic study in the role that religion has played in human history and civilization is a good things to have in curriculum. Beyond that, and you go well beyond the rightful domain of public education and into parochial school.
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Date: 24/7/11 11:47 (UTC)[Error: unknown template video]
Oh no he din'n!
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Date: 24/7/11 11:52 (UTC)The same could be said for Aesop's Fables.
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Date: 24/7/11 11:58 (UTC)they tell us that dragons exist, but because
they tell us that dragons can be beaten.
I like that Chesterton quote too, and I thought I'd share the original, or at least the form I found it in.
Especially when one is not part of the affluent culture, I think there is more value in the thought that there might be a greater transcendental realm than merely the world as we know it. But, of course, all things can be abused.
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Date: 24/7/11 23:37 (UTC)they should look and acknowledge this world, and work to improve it. not hold in their hands some pipe-dreams of a better life after this one.
opiates for the masses are NOT healthy
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Date: 24/7/11 13:32 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 24/7/11 13:02 (UTC)I am inclined too agree that you can teach children about religion without indoctrinating them. Telling them lies and convincing them that it's truth (especially the dangerous ones like an invisible, all powerful, punishing being is watching them and keeping score, that people they care about are going to suffer because they don't believe, and that faith is better than reason) is (IMO) abusive.
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Date: 24/7/11 17:57 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 24/7/11 13:11 (UTC)But there's no reason that stories have to be true, or have to be believed to be true to be effective. "A Christmas Story" holds moral truths and everyone knows it's fiction. LOTR and Harry Potter have a universal moral lesson - the need to fight against evil in the face of overwhelming personal danger.
The thing that the Bible gives us that science doesn't is a human centered history and an anthropomorphic deity that expresses everything in simple emotional terms. The idea that god placed his bow in the sky as a sign that the world would never be flooded again makes a much better story than the diffraction of light through water droplets.
And I think there's a value in being told "wrong" stories. I still remember trying to ride my bike to find the end of a rainbow (there's not one) and trying to dig a hole to China (you can't do it).
When I was a tiny child I noticed that the sun set behind a hill. I reasoned that there must be a pool of water on the other side for the sun to set in. When I was old enough to climb the hill I ran up to the top so I could see where the sun set - when I got to the top there was nothing there but the other side of the hill. My universe became much larger that day.
The stories I heard and believed as a child also made my universe larger, and when I discovered that they were not true, even larger still.
I firmly believe that parents have the right to raise their children to believe whatever stupid things they want. Just as I believe that every adult has the right to believe whatever stupid thing they want. That's what happens in a society that values free thinking.
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Date: 24/7/11 16:32 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 24/7/11 14:21 (UTC)OK, what have they done for me lately?
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Date: 24/7/11 14:29 (UTC)Oh, and they've been keeping the global gay/liberal/Islamofascist/Satanist hordes at bay, just for your safety.
What else... Christmas presents?
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Date: 24/7/11 14:37 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 24/7/11 15:00 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 24/7/11 15:27 (UTC)That sort of thing is abusive, in my eyes. My mother simply taking me to church as a kid, not so much.
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Date: 24/7/11 15:24 (UTC)I'm not necessarily denigrating religion. I think it's important to learn about everything. But I'm not sure it's necessary. Nor do I think that religion teaches critical thought - generally the goal was the opposite result.
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Date: 24/7/11 15:32 (UTC)I would put stories like Noah's Ark on the same level as Santa Claus, to be honest, and telling kids that Santa isn't real when they're 3-4 years old takes a lot of the fun out of being a kid at Christmas. So I agree that there's nothing wrong with telling them fairytales and other stories when they're kids, as long as they are eventually told to consider these stories logically and decide whether they really want to believe a story that somehow fits a pair of every animal in the world onto one boat.
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Date: 24/7/11 16:21 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 24/7/11 16:49 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 24/7/11 17:41 (UTC)he is not promoting a particular faith.
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Date: 24/7/11 17:42 (UTC)after you do, then we can talk about if it's child abuse or not
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Date: 24/7/11 17:43 (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 24/7/11 18:46 (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 24/7/11 22:40 (UTC)In my eyes, there's nothing wrong with teaching your children about faith and religion, and letting them make their own decisions on what to believe as they grow older.
Dawkins has a good point.
Date: 24/7/11 22:58 (UTC)Re: Dawkins has a good point.
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