[identity profile] luzribeiro.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics

(*SWCM = straight white Christian male)

OK, we've had our share of Hillary talk, even Warren talk, and for a while we might've imagined that a female US president was even a viable scenario. Heh.

I've wondered at times how come a developed society (presumably the most developed, actually) which often likes to declare itself the paragon of freedom and democracy in the world, has not had any female president, religious minority president (hell, even openly atheist president to that matter), or why not, openly gay president (hm, Buchanan doesn't count as "open", right?)

I've heard all sorts of excuses reasons for this curious fact, and now that the US has got its first black president (even a two-term one, wow!), we might as well be delving into the naive belief that anything is possible from here on.

Reasons for no female POTUS yet: From what I've heard, the excuses reasons generally revolve around the fact that women didn't get the right to vote until 1920, making it impossible for a woman to be elected before then. Problem is, there's been a century since then, and only 2 (namely: two) women have been ever nominated for VP, both in campaigns that were already the underdogs, and the hope was that nominating a woman for VP would've resonated with the "lady vote" and close the gap somewhat. It didn't work. So far, there haven't been many women in Senate, either. Most important committees are mostly male, if not all-male, including ones deciding on issues directly affecting women (like birth control). Hillary might've been the closest a woman could've gotten to the nomination, but it didn't work. Obama stole the glory back then. Now her name is again being regularly tossed around.

Anyway; so what's your take, folks? Why still no female president? Why America still hasn't joined the glorious club of democracies like Haiti, Nicaragua, Burundi, Guyana, The Philippines, Indonesia, Liberia, Gabon, Kosovo, Malawi, Central African Republic, Mongolia and Guinea-Bissau?

And what about the first gay president? OK, Buchanan might or might not have been one, but even if he indeed was, he wasn't openly gay, he didn't run while people knowing that he was gay, and they probably wouldn't have elected him if they had known. So what would it take to see the first openly LGBT prez? Hell, when will we see the first openly LGBT Republican nominee, let alone prez?

And here we come upon the elephant in the room, so to speak...

"Americans are somewhat more open to the idea of an atheist president"

"Somewhat more open"? What does that even mean? Oh right. Even if some of the candidates may've been atheist, so far few of them have dared declare that openly. Most major candidates never stop blabbering about God and the Bible, even the more progressive/liberal/heathen/you-name-it ones. Why is that? Maybe because "America has been founded on Christian principles", etc. At least that's what I'm being told by our more conservative friends. So when will we see an openly atheist candidate who doesn't have to pander to the religious majority, and still retain their chances of getting their party's nomination, and even being elected president? Would that EVER happen in the US?

What about non-Christian candidates? A Muslim, perhaps? THE HORRORS!

Or a representative of a smaller racial/ethnic minority? Asian, anyone?

We might ask similar questions about other "minorities" (hey, are you sure non-believers are actually a minority any more?) - like physically disabled candidates. FDR may have been one at the time he ran, so we may have a precedent already. But do you picture a candidate in a wheelchair ever having a viable chance of getting nominated and being elected into office?

All that said, here's a poll for ya. Which minority (from a political POV) has the best chances of getting a representative of theirs into the White House? And which will never see it happen?

[Poll #1972687]

[Poll #1972688]

Your turn, guys. Any votes / opinions / 2 cents / mocking macros / curses at the OP?

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Date: 22/6/14 17:57 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
I've been hearing people rooting against the "A-rabs" on major sports events (presumably because they're, well, A-rabs). So I'd wager that a Muslim would never be US president. As for the first poll, sure, a woman. Why not. Long, loooong overdue.

(no subject)

Date: 22/6/14 18:49 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hardblue.livejournal.com
So I'd wager that a Muslim would never be US president.

Heh, but a goodly portion of our population thinks
we already have one - a Kenyan to boot. Some
people still aren't buying that birth certificate,
long-form or otherwise. :p

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Date: 22/6/14 18:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mahnmut.livejournal.com
Because the American society is much more conservative than you'd think by the loudly proclaimed "principles" that it's supposed to "stand for". That's why there hasn't been a female president yet, and no religious, ethnic or racial minority president either. And don't be fooled by all the hype about Hillary Clinton's "star" - this won't be changing any time soon, first black president being a fact or not (some argue he's not "black enough").

(no subject)

Date: 22/6/14 19:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] policraticus.livejournal.com
and no religious, ethnic or racial minority president either.

Wait.

What?

Image (http://photobucket.com/images/barack%20obama)

This isn't black enough for some people?? Really? How much more black do you have to be? Almost all African American's are mixed race, to some degree.

Also, we've had plenty of religiously unaffiliated (Lincoln) or ambiguously affiliated (Eisenhower, Obama) presidents and a fair share of Unitarians (both Adams's, William "I don't believe in the divinity of Christ" Taft, even a couple of Quakers (notoriously Hoover and Nixon), a denomination of less than 100,000 souls. If that doesn't count as a minority, I don't know what does.

Not sure what "ethinc" minority means, but Van Buren grew up speaking Dutch and Kennedy's Irishness should count for something.

What you are really saying is that no US president has come from outside the mainstream of American culture. Well, duh. Isn't that what a democracy produces? How many elected German or Turkish or Swedish or Indian leaders have come from a religious, ethnic or racial minority?

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Date: 22/6/14 19:10 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
You forgot the great democracy of Turkey. One of its most famous prime ministers was Mrs Tansu Ciller, who by the way was... wait for it... a Muslim! :-O

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Date: 22/6/14 19:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] badlydrawnjeff.livejournal.com
Anyway; so what's your take, folks? Why still no female president?

Who has reached the national stature enough to actually pull it off? As it stands, the most likely person in the last few decades is Hillary Clinton, and her resume is pretty thin. It's mostly a lack of opportunity combined with the reality of party politics creating a sort of line to ascendancy that women have only recently started hitting the top of at the state level.

There just haven't been enough women to reach the point to become president. It's no vast conspiracy.

And what about the first gay president?

Statistically, it's bound to happen, but there aren't that many gay people to start, never mind gay politicians, never mind gay politicians with presidential ambition, never mind gay politicians with presidential ambition and ability.

So when will we see an openly atheist candidate who doesn't have to pander to the religious majority, and still retain their chances of getting their party's nomination, and even being elected president? Would that EVER happen in the US?

We won't, not anytime soon. It has nothing to do with pandering to the "religious majority," it's, again, a statistical numbers game. There just aren't enough atheists out there to make that sort of political splash, never mind swing enough religious voters over to his or her side to get enough votes.

What about non-Christian candidates? A Muslim, perhaps? THE HORRORS!

Islam is the third largest religion in the United States, and that represents less than 1% of the population (http://features.pewforum.org/muslim-population-graphic/#/United%20States). It's simply demographically unlikely.

Or a representative of a smaller racial/ethnic minority? Asian, anyone?

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw an Asian before a woman, honestly, in part because the Asian minority group has done a better job of assimilating into American culture, but, again, who? What Asian politician is even close? Michelle Rhee?

But do you picture a candidate in a wheelchair ever having a viable chance of getting nominated and being elected into office?

I do think this is possible-to-likely, in that it wouldn't be an hindrance. The person would probably be a veteran anyway.

tl;dr, it really comes down less to some sort of discriminatory action and more about a lack of viable candidates from those areas.

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Date: 22/6/14 21:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] policraticus.livejournal.com
What Asian politician is even close?

Bobby Jindal. Assuming you include South Asia.

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Date: 23/6/14 00:50 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
I'd go with Gary Locke. He's probably not presidential material right now but would be a solid vice-president. He was booted out as ambassador for letting an activist into the embassy, something that isn't going to be such a big problem in domestic politics. The thing working against him is he's from Washington, not exactly a swing state for the democrats. Anyhow, miles closer than Michelle Rhee.

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Date: 23/6/14 21:40 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
I sorta agree with you here. Quick, give me a high five!

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Date: 24/6/14 03:59 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
We won't, not anytime soon. It has nothing to do with pandering to the "religious majority," it's, again, a statistical numbers game. There just aren't enough atheists out there to make that sort of political splash, never mind swing enough religious voters over to his or her side to get enough votes.

But let's be clear, if an openly atheist candidate were able to make it to the running, he would fail due to his atheism. Period. The President says "God Bless America". The President presides over the National Day of Prayer. The president issues proclamations of national religious observances. The president buttresses every major speech and address with religious frippery. The President prays for our soldiers at war .. in other countries .. The President says "God Bless each and every American". There is a religious left and religious center and religious right who would not support an atheist president. Period. Non-starter.

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Date: 22/6/14 19:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] htpcl.livejournal.com
I voted "Other" on the first poll. Meaning, a shapeshifting alien lizardoid.

THEY'RE ALREADY AMONG US!

Image

(no subject)

Date: 22/6/14 20:03 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] johnny9fingers.livejournal.com
By most standards, FDR was disabled. The wheelchair and walking sticks sort of give the game away.

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Date: 22/6/14 20:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
presumably the most developed, actually

Not great to start off with a giant strawman.

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Date: 22/6/14 21:30 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] luvdovz.livejournal.com
It's curious how people who'd otherwise argue much in the same line of argument as you did here (regarding minority participation and representation in politics), instantly change the tune and become all feisty and defensive whenever their precious national pride gets slightly bitten. Predictably, it's always the same sort of people. Like the tides: they come in, then come out, you can't explain it.

And no, most of these minorities will never have a president in the US. Not within the next century, anyway.
Edited Date: 22/6/14 21:31 (UTC)

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Date: 23/6/14 05:50 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ddstory.livejournal.com
Nothing stirs the nest quite as much as a few mildly inconvenient questions being asked.

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Date: 22/6/14 21:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] airiefairie.livejournal.com
Atheist? In godly America? No way... There is a good reason that most of these candidates never stop citing the name of God and Jesus in front of the cameras, whether they are asked about religion or not.

A woman president is a matter of time, though.

(no subject)

Date: 24/6/14 04:09 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
I basically agree. An actual open atheist would turn their world asunder crashing delusions down around them at almost every turn, given how ingrained religion is into the supposedly secular office.

The right woman would be cool.

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Date: 23/6/14 00:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
We've already had a disabled president; and there have been several disabled candidates, but not specifically unable to walk.

Given the advances in technology you won't likely see a president confined to a wheelchair anyway; but I think its pretty likely we will see a candidate with who can't walk on their own without the assistance of prosthetic legs or will require the use of a powered exoskeleton to walk (which is a very new technology)
Edited Date: 23/6/14 00:20 (UTC)

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Date: 23/6/14 00:27 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] muscadinegirl.livejournal.com
I just want to go back to having Presidents and congresspeople who aren't millionaires.

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Date: 23/6/14 00:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
That ship has long since sailed.

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Date: 23/6/14 01:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
I'd go with a woman as most likely for a couple of reasons:

1) Hillary is a likely candidate.

2) There are a lot of women who are getting elected governor these days, which is really the larval stage for someone with presidential ambitions. This is also pretty recent, about half of the women who were elected governor did so since 2000, so I'd expect we're going to be seeing more and more female governors which will translate into more and more female presidential candidates.

Also, about half of the women elected governor since 2000 are republican, including four of the five women who are currently governors, so I'm going to predict that, unless Hillary gets elected, the first women elected president will be a republican. They've got the candidates right now.

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Date: 24/6/14 04:20 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
I'm going to predict that, unless Hillary gets elected, the first women elected president will be a republican. They've got the candidates right now.

Perhaps one that completes their term this time?

Image
Edited Date: 24/6/14 04:20 (UTC)

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Date: 23/6/14 03:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
Is there some pressing need to have minorities in the Oval Office? Besides the 'historic first' achievement.

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Date: 23/6/14 06:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexeron.livejournal.com
"Americans are somewhat more open to the idea of an atheist president"

Image

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Date: 23/6/14 21:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fizzyland.livejournal.com
And then we're saddled with no shortage of people who say and think things like this: “He would literally say, . . . ‘God has told me I’m chosen to cut taxes and stop killing babies" (http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118145/scott-walkers-toxic-racial-politics)

We're not rational, not by a long shot.

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Date: 24/6/14 03:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
May be able to float one or two up there for a while, but 43 in a row? The record is safe.

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Date: 24/6/14 03:38 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
Go Rwanda!

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SG.GEN.PARL.ZS?order=wbapi_data_value_2013+wbapi_data_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc

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Date: 24/6/14 05:12 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
I was surprised to learn the current Congress has the highest number of women elected ever. Almost a quater (sorry I originally wrote nearly half-- brain fart! ;) (20 women senators), an that's a record for the U.S. Senate. And in the House of Representatives, 79 are currently serving (about 18 percent of the House); and let's not forget Nancy Pelosi was the first woman Speaker of the House.

The Washington Post had an interesting feature on that to (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2013/01/03/7d1aaf30-55e5-11e2-8b9e-dd8773594efc_story.html)o, noting:


When Republicans first circulated a list of their committee chairmen for the 113th Congress, showing that every committee would be headed by a white man, Pelosi’s office quickly followed up with a flier with photos of the ranking Democrats on the panels. Half of top Democrats on committees are minorities or women. In the debate that followed, Boehner named Rep. Candice Miller (R-Mich.) to chair the House Administration Committee, a panel on which she had not served. “The more diversity of opinion at the table, the more consensus you can build, the more sustainability of the solutions, and the more respect it commands,” Pelosi said of her efforts to advance women and minorities into leadership.
Edited Date: 24/6/14 05:46 (UTC)

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