[identity profile] paft.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] talkpolitics
From the New York Times:

Long-term joblessness — the kind that Ms. Barrington-Ward and about four million others are experiencing — is now one of the defining realities of the American work force.

The unemployment rate has fallen to 7.3 percent, down from 10 percent four years ago. Private businesses have added about 7.6 million positions over the same period. But while recent numbers show that there are about as many people unemployed for short periods as in 2007 — before the crisis hit — they also show that long-term joblessness is up 213 percent.

In part, that’s because people don’t return to work in an orderly, first-fired, first-hired fashion. In any given month, a newly jobless worker has about a 20 to 30 percent chance of finding a new job. By the time he or she has been out of work for six months, though, the chance drops to one in 10, according to research by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco.


I've so far had three conversations, online and off, with people who say that, when hiring, they either reject out of hand any resume that shows the person is unemployed and/or over a certain age or instruct their recruiters to do this. They look ever so regretful about it. Shake their heads. Furrow their brows. Shrug as though they aren't responsible and some invisible force is making them do it.

So I have a question for any of you employers who do this or instruct your recruiters to do this. If you are going to systematically shut out Americans who've faced long-term unemployment, or have been careless enough to be born before 1964, surely you support some form of public assistance that will prevent the resulting large pool of the permanently jobless from starving or living on the streets? Is that correct? In between tossing into the shredder any resume or application that indicates the person has been out of work for more than a few months, or (horrors!) has a few gray hairs, no doubt you actively campaign for some permanent government system of financial support for the thousands and thousands of human beings you are consigning to permanent unemployment.

Right?

If not, what alternative are you proposing for dealing with this large pool of human resources you are so willing to toss into the dustbin?

*

(no subject)

Date: 5/12/13 20:06 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brother-dour.livejournal.com
You get all the internets for this post. All of them.

May I link this to my FB page and quote the last three paragraphs?

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Date: 5/12/13 20:37 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] policraticus.livejournal.com
When faced with an ocean of applications and only a teaspoon of positions to fill, one way or another, there is always going to be someone unfairly excluded. That is just the nature of the problem. Arbitrarily choosing one qualified applicant over another is as unfair when you do it as when someone with different prejudices does it.

I never face this dilemma. Where I am we are chronically short of qualified applicants so I basically hire on sight now. That being said, there are plenty of jobs where long term unemployment raises questions, STEM jobs, for instance. There are others which are so physically demanding that an applicant over a certain age has to at least raise questions. I know I'd be apprehensive about hiring a 50 year old line cook. Quite apart from wondering why they are still a line cook, I'd question their ability to handle the hours, the pressure and the sheer time standing. Not that I'd be in much position to pass. Better to fire them later if they can't hack it.

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Date: 6/12/13 02:53 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brother-dour.livejournal.com
If there was only some way to legally prohibit discrimination on the basis of age or unemployment status. Maybe it could even be coupled with civil fines and penalties for transgressors who are convicted of such behavior.
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From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com
I employ over 35 people. All of them were looking for jobs when we hired them. Half of them are full time. In Atlanta, we can't afford to cull with such arbitrary measures. Mega corps? Well, what kind of special cupcake actually wants to work for such a behemoth entity?

The system has totes failed business by cutting education, decimating communities and families by throwing father and mother figures into a Prison System

Or, just the issues with people seeking work, but lack the ability to learn because of FAS, ADD, pollution or other societal poisonings.

Throw in a healthy dose if 'your ass is rich, so should mine' along with a consumption oriented attitude called 'entitlement' and you have a large section of the unemployable who have reasons other than unemployment tenure. They simply suck as employees.

ETA: my solution is to resurrect the CCC. We need infrastructure work bad!
Edited Date: 5/12/13 21:13 (UTC)

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Date: 5/12/13 21:22 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexeron.livejournal.com
"what alternative are you proposing for dealing with this large pool of human resources you are so willing to toss into the dustbin?"

“Are there no prisons?” asked Scrooge. “And the Union workhouses? Are they still in operation?”

More seriously, you raise a valid question. I note that the first to respond quickly jumped to defend, or at least explain, the lack of hiring of the chronically unemployed. What is missed in this mad rush to defend the corporatocracy is any consideration of whether allowing a massive segment of our population to remain unemployed has negative consequences for society as a whole. Do the effects ripple outwards? Do we just wash our hands of the jobless and pretend that this has no effect on us?

Is it not, perhaps, in our best interests to ensure that those who fall through the cracks because of what (we are told) is merely smart business practice have some sort of safety net?

The Maddow Blog had a short blurb about it (http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/leaving-the-long-term-jobless-behind) this morning as well. I agree with their contention: the Democrats cannot merely check off the "economic populism" check-box by raising the minimum wage. Yes, that wage should be raised, but it does no good to those without jobs. That is where they should place their focus if they are truly interested in helping those most hurt by the ongoing economic issues in our country.

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Date: 6/12/13 03:01 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brother-dour.livejournal.com
I would argue that the problem is the corporatocracy could care less about what is best for society in today's business world. What is best for the shareholders is alpha and omega to them.

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Date: 5/12/13 21:40 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] telemann.livejournal.com
I've never understood why if you were unemployed for X amount of time (it seems six months is the magic number), you were ruled out of the game automatically.

In a nutshell?

Date: 5/12/13 23:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rick-day.livejournal.com
supply and demand, baby. So many to choose from, so many arbitrary ways to cull the list.

It ain't right, but it is what it is.

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Date: 6/12/13 04:59 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mutive.livejournal.com
The argument I've heard is that if you're all that great, you'll be snatched up ASAP. While if you suck, that's why you're out of work for so long.

That argument obviously has a ton of flaws...
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Date: 6/12/13 01:21 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kylinrouge.livejournal.com
Is it a good idea to just lie? Put on your resume for your last job (Whenever you started) - Present and just keep it like that until you get a new job. When/If called on it you can just say the resume is outdated? I don't think anyone fact-checks these things.

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Date: 6/12/13 01:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
No, really bad idea. There one of the few questions that a company can ask a previous employer about an applicant is the dates they were employed. This will also likely come up during an interview as well, if your resume states you are employed, you will probably be asked why you're leaving. If the answer is that you were laid off eight months ago, things won't go well. If you are unemployed and looking for jobs, it won't look good if your resume is out of date either.

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Date: 6/12/13 05:00 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mutive.livejournal.com
Meh, it can be checked, but I'm not sure that it's a terrible idea. If it gets you through the door, you just later go, "woops, haven't updated my resume in a while!"

Of course, this all depends on how long it's been...

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Date: 6/12/13 14:23 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-rukh.livejournal.com
Would be better to just get a crappy throwaway job in the meantime I think. You get some money and you don't have a hole in your resume.

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Date: 6/12/13 03:42 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mikeyxw.livejournal.com
"surely you support some form of public assistance that will prevent the resulting large pool of the permanently jobless from starving or living on the streets?"

Disability seems to have stepped in to provide what you are asking for. I don't know of anyone who has suggested this is a good solution however.

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Date: 6/12/13 03:54 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yes-justice.livejournal.com
Disability seems to have stepped in to provide what you are asking for. I don't know of anyone who has suggested this is a good solution however.

Huh? One cannot go on disability without being employed while being diagnosed with a condition by a doctor.

SSI you also need to be diagnosed with a condition. I have known people who pretended to be incontinent.

The healthy, able bodied willing to work, unemployed have no disability option and get cut off unemployment after six months in my state. Then you have federal extension for 40 weeks, but that is ended hard cut Dec 28th 2013. So, what then? Die in the street.

Edited Date: 6/12/13 04:00 (UTC)

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Date: 6/12/13 06:36 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vitsli.livejournal.com
"Everyone over 50 has no chance" is a hasty generalization, of course. The situation vary per industry etc., age and/or unemployment term is just one of the factors, not necessarily the most important one.
The article is, in fact, about those who sits at the same "administrative position" desk for decades. Many of these jobs simply disappear due to the paperless workflow and automation. Once the job itself disappears, it's hard to find another position simply because there aren't many around, and decreasing.
Actually, that understanding broadens the subject dramatically. Anyone with niche proficiency has a risk to face long unemployment; the older you are, the more (and narrower) experience you nave, the higher the risk.
Internet search has effectively killed many "middleman" businesses, I've seen a couple of pretty miserable real estate agents who used to do great. They're in their 40s, and the only thing they know how to do is how to show you apartments.
When a fab shuts down in some area, market gets plenty of high-skilled, super-specialized professionals 50+, who can (presumably) only do well what they did for decades.
Their CVs would hardly even match any other position in the area, they're definitely overqualified to flip hamburgers either. One of the classes at ACC was full of old lads from former Motorola semiconductor fab near Austin, TX trying to learn something about Windows servers.
Younger people from the same fab were more flexible to either learn new things, or move to a new place, while the old folks were trapped by their specialization and experience (they were also heavily overestimating their value).
An important things is, these changes rarely happen suddenly. If some business has problems, or a plant is going to be closed, of massive layoffs are planned, insiders either know or feel, usually.
Another important thing is, the no-skill jobs like scrubbing toilets, or construction - a logical gateway of last resort - are effectively banned for many Americans, because outsource is cheaper than dealing with minimum wage, insurance, and other regulations.

There is not a silver bullet to guarantee help to all those who're out of business. These ideas are pretty much in the current economic mainstream, so there shall be plenty of articles.

Logically, to remove the obstacles between these people and their job or business shall help the situation overall. Ironically, exactly the measures to protect workers seem to backfire in this case. To have $5 per hour is better than nothing (ask any Latino at the nearest construction yard) yet the lady in the article mentioned has exactly nothing, and so on. Even the "safety net" seem to backfire, because most of the humans act the best with their ass on fire - exactly the moment safety net delays.
Well, those old lads from the fab in Austin, TX - they knew the fab is going to be closed. Why didn't they act? Because they could. There was a "safety net" - they got the money, the benefits, they've spent a couple of month just relaxing - exactly a couple of month out of work mentioned.

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Date: 6/12/13 20:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oportet.livejournal.com
There is a difference between the unemployed and the unemployable, and there is no exact science to discerning the difference by looking at a page or two written up by someone who is biased towards themselves (which we all are - so I'm not singling out people applying for jobs).

If you're unemployed, you pitch yourself to a business the same way a single person pitches themselves to a potential mate - you downplay your flaws, if not deny their existence completely - all the while knowing the other party is working off the safe - but not necessarily true - assumption that there is something wrong with you.

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Date: 8/12/13 02:47 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] merig00.livejournal.com
Unemployment by age as of November 2013

Total, 16 years and over 7
16 to 19 years 20.8
16 to 17 years 23.7
18 to 19 years 19.2
20 years and over 6.5
20 to 24 years 11.6
25 years and over 5.9
25 to 54 years 6.2
25 to 34 years 7.4
35 to 44 years 5.7
45 to 54 years 5.5
55 years and over 4.9
http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea10.htm

Everyone over 35 year old is below average unemployment rate. The older you are the more chances you are employed.

So you were saying...

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